Discrimination of certain jobs - your opinion

[ChaoticCrimson]

Speaking of job discrimination, it's fun trying to do Rabnasty as a RDM when your healers decide to hardly heal you and your MP is struggling because you're picking up the res slack and healing yourself, and Lucid's on CD constantly, which is compounded by eventually dying to raid damage and the occasional mechanical misstep (oh, and horribly ill-timed rescues after accepting a res)... Meanwhile you're still trying to do damage, you know, the thing a DPS job should be doing. And then you're about to start the last boss and someone in your alliance outright says something like "as is tradition, red mages get no comms". Yeah, tons of fun... (I gave my fellow RDM in the alliance a comm out of spite btw, not that they extended the same nicety to me)

[Avatre]

"as is tradition, red mages get no comms". Yeah, tons of fun... (I gave my fellow RDM in the alliance a comm out of spite btw, not that they extended the same nicety to me)

Yup, happens all the time. Mostly because people don't realize it was the RDM and not the healers getting people up. Even with my macro people tend to say thanks to the healers for all the res. Though, last night(you can find the story in the Tales from Duty Finder thread) I did get a comm, not sure who from, but mine went to the SAM, the only other person that didn't die during the whole thing aside from the wipe because Roofie got 100% on his bar.

[HiroKirito]

Is there a way to make a BLM and SAM (and I guess MCH?) more valuable to the party without having to cut the dps of SAM?

Just want to quickly answer this part first. NO.... I agree that they need a tiny bit of love, but you want a "utility" buff but without sacrificing any of your dps is asking way to much and would just continue the circle jerk of "meta" jobs.

Onto the exclusion part. A large number of people have already said it, people that lock pfs to meta comps usually aren't good enough to capatilise on the party synergy anyway and they are doing you a favour as that kind of group will just hold you back anyway

A good static will welcome a good player and make it work comp wise. Once the tiers on farm though I do think people should be flexible if the static wants to compete for speed kills etc (Sam main should imo be able to play drg/nin).

If I host a pf I only exclude double jobs, i.e. a Sam joins, no more Sams, etc.

As someone who played monk in previous tiers to SB my personal opinion was it's fine being the selfish dps job but you have to bring that selfish dps. I feel like Sam is suffering a little from it's overall popularity because Sam. Some people may be 'meta' comp morons but I'm sure there's also at least a few who are just fed up with Sams who join runs, don't pull their weight and finish bottom of the barrel even in zero death runs.

Not saying the above describes you but it's amazing how many people dont realise that being the selfish dps job means bringing a ton of dps, that is your 'utility'

[ChaoticCrimson]

Yup, happens all the time. Mostly because people don't realize it was the RDM and not the healers getting people up. Even with my macro people tend to say thanks to the healers for all the res.

I have a similar macro that lets people know I'm tossing a res, and goes down a priority list of party order unless I specifically target someone. Makes it very clear (or should do) that I'm popping a res on someone. I can feel your pain... I have such mixed feelings about Rabanastre lately. On one hand, it's a gorgeous raid with bosses that are at just the right difficulty - I expect to die at least once each to the latter three bosses, but I (usually) never have to worry about the whole group wiping. Unfortunately, other players seem to offset that by a significant margin, for those very reasons.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Just want to quickly answer this part first. NO.... I agree that they need a tiny bit of love, but you want a "utility" buff but without sacrificing any of your dps is asking way to much and would just continue the circle jerk of "meta" jobs.


Not saying the above describes you but it's amazing how many people dont realise that being the selfish dps job means bringing a ton of dps, that is your 'utility'

This here is the problem though, the "selfish dps" isn't enough to outweigh taking the META jobs according to many PF and static recruiting adverts. Whats the point in being a selfish dps if it isnt enough to counter the party utility others have? And then if the selfish dps is too much, people complain that now their dps isnt enough, even with their utility.

[HiroKirito]

according to many PF and static recruiting adverts.

Like I said ignore those PFs, people focused on absolute meta usually arent worth joining. A good player is a good player regardless of job choice. But I think people are too rigid in general and should be more flexible. My static for example runs 2 melees, a ranged phys & a caster, we are free to switch jobs within that role whenever but we do default to more utility when going for speed.

Personally I don't see it like that right now. Balancing isn't perfect either, it needs some tweaks and there is some strong utility but I also know some very good Sams who out dps me as they should, but if I out dps a Sam on my ninja in a 0 death run then I'm sorry that's just a bad Sam who isn't doing what their jobs built to do and from my experience are usually the people asking for nerfs or buffs rather than just getting better.

[AmaSagahl]

But I think people are too rigid in general and should be more flexible. My static for example runs 2 melees, a ranged phys & a caster, we are free to switch jobs within that role whenever but we do default to more utility when going for speed.

...

Tbh, I appreciate people levelling multiple jobs, but for me it was a very hard path to get my SAM dps up to where it should be. It might be just me, but it's one of the more complicated jobs to get 100% right and good at. Someone said to me once: It's easy to be a decent Samurai, it's hard to be a really outstanding Samurai.
I want to be one of those top dps SAM, but I know there is still a lot of practice ahead of me. And I'd rather get really, really fucking good in one job than levelling multiple jobs for the sake of fitting within the meta.
It wouldn't harm some other players to adapt that kind of thinking either; why being mediocre at many when you need to first nail your main?

Once I can sleepwalk this job, I might be thinking about taking on another class. But I will also not level a NIN for the buff; as I stated - it kind of goes against my beliefs. I get your point, of course. It's really handy to be able to switch around within a static.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

I was a SAM main until I went DRG because while I don't enjoy it as much, it brings so much to our group and I want to bring as much as I possibly can. I was told its fine if I want to be SAM but I felt that going DRG will help us out in the long run.
The problem in general is that NIN is flat out way too good not to bring and DRG boosts the damage of everyone in the raid, especially BRD/MCH because of Disembowel, so their raid utility is more desirable.
There will always be a Meta and that makes balancing quite an issue.

[HiroKirito]

why being mediocre at many when you need to first nail your main?

I understand this sentiment and I wouldn't say I'm top tier, some of my group are, but none of us are anywhere close to mediocre so maybe that's why we have the flexibility.

I guess my overall message was meant to be more play what you want but play it well and if the group's too rigid to just accept a competent player regardless of role, they aren't the kind of groups you want to join anyway.

As someone else said though dependencies is more of an issue with comp imo. Our Sam still plays Sam occasionally but runs Drg more often now because ultimately there's a ceiling for our brd/mch that he cant break through easily without the piercing and crit buffs drg brings.

[AmaSagahl]

....
The problem in general is that NIN is flat out way too good not to bring and DRG boosts the damage of everyone in the raid, especially BRD/MCH because of Disembowel, so their raid utility is more desirable.
There will always be a Meta and that makes balancing quite an issue.

Point is, the balance could be there and there doesn't have to be a 'meta' either. They advertised Samurai as dps machine, so they could just give us the dps to actually make us as valuable as NIN, just on a different level. The dps difference is too miniscule to actually achieve that.

It's no witchcraft to balance the jobs a little bit better, and many people are seeing the problem. A good friend of mine is having massive trouble finding a Bahamut Ultimate group, despite his insanely good damage with SAM. It says a lot. It doesn't deserve not being wanted anymore in raids after the hype of it's release, it is a great job.
BLM is in a really bad state right now and needs adjustments, while I just hope there will be a solution in the future for Samurai.