Warriors need MORE damage

[Wintersandman]

Snip.

I enjoy these conversations tremendously. If anything it just shows even more how far DRK is behind.

[Chrono_Rising]

I enjoy these conversations tremendously. If anything it just shows even more how far DRK is behind.

... and then there is dark knight LOL

Shadow Wall: mitigation of vengeance cooldown of Sentinel

Dark Mind 16% mitigation magic only in 10 second intervals every minute. Worse in duration and mitigation than raw intuition. Mitigates much less than bulwark but has nearly twice the uptime and isn’t RNG.

Out of tank stance paladin and dark knight have access to their on demand mitigation, warrior doesn’t. I don’t know if this balances out but I have a feeling the balance is in Warrior’s favor.

[Wintersandman]

... and then there is dark knight LOL

Agreed you would think if it was a 2h clone of PLD, Shadow Wall would at least be 40% but...

[Scyn]

1.paladin matching or surpassing warrior dps isn't warrior's fault because with their current sets they can do it very easily, but then again i'm sure this will fall on deaf ear and you will just say another nonsense to justify your hate for the job
2.meta is indeed war and pld but dark knight and warrior are still interchangable, that is why the world first of bahamut was paladin and dark knight not warrior and dark knight. doing dark knight and warrior in current raid is like shooting yourself in the foot
3.buffing war and drk is valid until pld loses their guaranteed spot in raid that they currently have

1) wrong - try again.
2) just because world first used a drk doesn’t suddenly validiate your argument. Btw world second had a warrior .
3) lol ya ok. That sounds like a viable way of buffing a class. Thank god you aren’t in charge of class balance.

[Chrono_Rising]

Agreed you would think if it was a 2h clone of PLD, Shadow Wall would at least be 40% but...

Ideally it should not be a clone of Paladin, the devs should make it it’s own job.

[shao32]

1.paladin matching or surpassing warrior dps isn't warrior's fault because with their current sets they can do it very easily, but then again i'm sure this will fall on deaf ear and you will just say another nonsense to justify your hate for the job
2.meta is indeed war and pld but dark knight and warrior are still interchangable, that is why the world first of bahamut was paladin and dark knight not warrior and dark knight. doing dark knight and warrior in current raid is like shooting yourself in the foot
3.buffing war and drk is valid until pld loses their guaranteed spot in raid that they currently have

sorry but im not agree with anything you say, you looks like you dont know how to play WAR properly.

firts if you let a PLD matching you dps you arent playing properly or you are messing the zerk windows, WARS are king on dps in stable numbers you can go to fflogs and check that yourself if you want, no one need to hate the job to see the current WAR performance is superior.

second WAR is not interchangeable, DRK offers nothing to the team, the meta is WAR and PLD both in a pretty solid position, DRK beins world first means the battle dont really needs the extras the other tanks have to beat the fight but that don't means not having a WAR the battle will be lot more easy with is that already does, the number of parsers on that fight prove that.

and thirt WAR dont needs buff, more they need nerfs in some things, i dont really care if they get QoL changes as longer those dont buff they already king performance for the baby WARS how cant manage the job, the only job who needs buffs is DRK, WAR is already on par to PLD and they surpass it on many things.

[Wintersandman]

Ideally it should not be a clone of Paladin, the devs should make it it’s own job.

Agreed but if I recall from HW Shadow Wall and Sentinel were identical once you had the trait boost it.

[Chrono_Rising]

Agreed but if I recall from HW Shadow Wall and Sentinel were identical once you had the trait boost it.

Shadow Wall has always only been 30%. It was not traited to 40% at any time. Sentinel was traited to 40% though.

[Launched]

Out of tank stance paladin and dark knight have access to their on demand mitigation, warrior doesn’t. I don’t know if this balances out but I have a feeling the balance is in Warrior’s favor.

It does make a difference. Right now PLD has ~25% mitigation on every single tankbuster from Sheltron, and a random chance to block every single attack. DRK has an ~11k shield every 15 seconds, for every tankbuster and plenty of other hits. And Intervention/TBN can be used on other people just as often. That adds up to a lot of free mitigation in any fight. A group with PLD+DRK can mitigate most things with just Sheltron/Intervention+TBN, but WAR needs to use its full cooldowns because IB is Defiance only. WAR SHOULD have better cooldowns to make up for how undesireable IB is.

[Chrono_Rising]

It does make a difference. Right now PLD has ~25% mitigation on every single tankbuster from Sheltron, and a random chance to block every single attack. DRK has an ~11k shield every 15 seconds, for every tankbuster and plenty of other hits. And Intervention/TBN can be used on other people just as often. That adds up to a lot of free mitigation in any fight. A group with PLD+DRK can mitigate most things with just Sheltron/Intervention+TBN, but WAR needs to use its full cooldowns because IB is Defiance only. WAR SHOULD have better cooldowns to make up for how undesireable IB is.

So the issue that I have with this is that we are mixing utility into the mix of life when comparing tank mitigation, but lets look at it seriously in savage currently. Naturally, when it comes to utility for team mitigation, paladin is going to knock it out of the park. Intervention is firmly in the utility camp, and TBN is in both depending on how its used. I'm not going to make a large fuss about how TBN is not actually free and is risk without reward especially when "used on anyone", but needless to say I really disagree with this point. Intervention is basically free trading mitigation for me into mitigation for you. I would like to point out that Thrill of Battle + intervention would be the same thing as intervention + TBN every two minutes, which for practical purposes is every other tank buster in most fights, a far cry from using everything.

Sheltron is up for basically every tank buster. Does this make a huge difference? Well in V3S it doesn't since crit overrides blocking, it might be up but its not doing anything for every other buster. Warrior can make it through this with alternating holmgang and awareness back and forth and not dive into any of its other mitigation. In V4S I think most groups tank ultimate through the major tank busters to manage their way through, since there are no auto-attacks there isn't much else to spend your mitigation on other than aero and shakers, and paladin can help warrior through that since aero typically only needs a small amount of mitigation to be livable, and the rest of the buster/cleaves are shared.

So we are actually talking about the first two turns when we are discussing this. However, the tank busters in the first two turns are immediately procedeed by cleaves, which your healers might want mitigated. Here the extra duration on Warrior's cooldowns are at an advantage as it can often catch at least one (if not both) cleaves and the tank buster, where as paladin and dark knight will have to choose 1 of the three to mitigate, or you know use their mitigations to get through like warrior.

So yes, Paladin Dark Knight brings alot of on demand mitigation right now, but it also seems the fights where this matters there is a large amount of damage going out before hand which favors warrior's kit. In v3s you are trading the ease of warrior simply using its mitigation for on demand coordination from a dark paladin composition. V4S has taught us to use tank ultimates, the greatest gift of all since nothing matters, except that dark knights are a pain to heal when they take thunders and healers dodge laser beams, fire, and ice.