While the Glamour Revision is welcomed - I feel like its missing the mark

[Zfz]

I actively play RDM, BLM, PLD and WHM now, and I've always liked the crafter and gatherer job-specific gear. So this is what I think I will need for the Commode, based on glamour I already use or have always wanted to use, when I get everything to 70:

• INT base glamour Plaguebringer for BLM and SMN, RDM ensembles to the lv70 RDM job gear. 5 slots used.
• MND base glamour Skalla, Commode stores job gear WHM(Lv50+LV50+Lv60), AST(Lv60+Lv70), SCH(Lv50+Lv50+Lv70). 40 slots used.
• VIT base glamour World of Darkness tank set, Commode stores job gear PLD(Lv50+Lv50+Lv70), WAR(Lv50+Lv50+Lv60+Lv70), DRK(Lv70). 40 slots.
• STR base glamour Skalla, Commode stores job gear SAM(Lv70), MNK(Lv50+Lv50+70), ignore DRG. 20 slots.
• DEX base glamour Sharlayan, Commode stores job gear NIN(Lv50+Lv50+Lv60+Lv70), BRD(Lv50+Lv50+Lv60+Lv70), ignore MCH. 40 slots.
• Gatherer base glamour FSH, Commode stores class gear BTN(Lv50+60+70), MIN(Lv50+60+70). 30 slots.
• Crafter base glamour CUL, Commode stores class gear for Lv50+60+70 for the other 7 classes. 105 slots.

So that's total of 175 slots before my crafter classes.

What does this mean?

It means that 200 will be plenty if we only keep "glamour gear we want to use now". For example if I throw away all the level 50/60 job gear and limit myself to current job gear, then there's no capacity problem to speak of.

And there's no problem throwing away those gear pieces because they're all retrievable. Lv 50 AF can be bought from the salvager, Lv 50 ilv90 takes more work but are trivial now that we can solo level 50 dungeons easily for the drops. Lv 60 AF is where it gets dirty because it requires mob hunts. Lv 70 AF can be bought from the salvager.

Let's redo the calculations then.

One AF set from each combat job totals 15x5=75 slots.

Now add that to hard-to-obtain gatherer and crafter class gear for level 50, 60 and 70, which totals 11x5x3=165 slots, from which we can deduct 10 slots because we can use one set of current crafter gear and one set of current gatherer gear as base glamour, giving us 155 slots.

The grand total is 230 slots.

So the system will be adequate (at least for now) for people who are not playing all possible jobs. Which brings up the same old question:

Mr. Yoshida, why are you always designing systems that are "good enough" for people who don't play all jobs+classes when one of your game's primary selling point is that "you can be anything and everything"?

[Alleo]

Love seeing all these people who know how Square Enix's server structure and code all works..

No we dont know how their code works but we see how those system functions on other MMOs and as a P2P one I dont give them the pass if they cant be next to their biggest competitors. We argued about glamour (and housing) for years...its not like we just started with that at the end of HW, so they had more than enough time to create a good system for that. I mean its necessary since they cant just give us new free retainers on mass and we get more and more glamour stuff..anyone can see that somewhere down the line even the person who barely glamours will be at its limit. Also the term "glamour is the true endgame" does not come from nothing. A lot of the content has glamour as the carrot on the stick yet more and more people have problems to store it.

using WOW as something to smack SE up the head with is NOT fair because this game hasn't been out as long as WOW and SE doesn't know how to run mmo's that well, just doing comparisons between a game that knows what its doing to a game that doesn't is pure bs and downright wrong. i'm sick of seeing this all the time "well if wow can do it why cant this game" this statement is stupid and needs to stop if you dont understand coding and that games get better at doing stuff / wow has more money and more then likely better servers stop saying it. goto wow if its that much better. other then that leave wow out of this and all other discussions, it is not a fair comparison no matter what way you look at it. so stop it. other then that at least SE is trying now instead of prettying ourselves up maybe they can give us ACTUAL content to do hmm?

SE already had another MMO before this one called FF 11 so yes they do have experience. Also this is the harsh truth of competition. Nobody cares if you are new and if you have any kind of experience. If games manage to do that then you either need some other aspects that will keep people playing or you need to get on the same level. Also games like Rift that is now a F2P game can do housing and glamour much better than SE so no its not only WoW.

In the end if something becomes a standard for a genre you cant just argue how long it took them. I mean would you accept an MMO in the future (maybe a decade from now) that uses some old 20 year old system? Or would you go around and say that they are not even fulfilling the standards of MMOs?

Glamour is content...the same like mounts and pets. How many people would still run content if there is nothing behind it. Ilvl can only get you so far and will just make an content old over time. So having a glamour log would imo increase the content of this game because there are probably quite some people who would threat it as another achievement list and would go hunting for all the glamours..right now I just simply see no reason to run dungeons for glamour because I have no space to store them.

(And actual content....like perform and the replay feature? x))

[Vstarstruck]

Now add that to hard-to-obtain gatherer and crafter class gear for level 50, 60 and 70, which totals 11x5x3=165 slots, from which we can deduct 10 slots because we can use one set of current crafter gear and one set of current gatherer gear as base glamour, giving us 155 slots.

Sorry I am a little confused with your post but are you suggesting people actually want to use one set for all crafting and gathering gear? People only do that because we have to, we do not have the room to glam each crafting and gathering class differently, despite wanting too. Most often then not, rafting and gathering classes get the most out of crafted melding gear, and with 320 gear out atm, that is clearly the case.

We do not have enough space to glam before and after this system, because both systems are bad, giving us bare minimum, and I am getting awful tired of them trying to pass the minimum on us so much.

[LaylaTsarra]

Sorry I am a little confused with your post but are you suggesting people actually want to use one set for all crafting and gathering gear? People only do that because we have to, we do not have the room to glam each crafting and gathering class differently, despite wanting too. Most often then not, rafting and gathering classes get the most out of crafted melding gear, and with 320 gear out atm, that is clearly the case.

We do not have enough space to glam before and after this system, because both systems are bad, giving us bare minimum, and I am getting awful tired of them trying to pass the minimum on us so much.

I agree. Why should a cook look like a blacksmith and armorer and so on. It's always been disappointing to me when different roles have to look the same just because we don't have the space for the gear.

[Dzian]

I agree. Why should a cook look like a blacksmith and armorer and so on. It's always been disappointing to me when different roles have to look the same just because we don't have the space for the gear.

To be fair that was also partly down to the armour chest and stuff.

In heavensward for example most people went iron works simply be sus it would have taken 55 weeks if I remember correctly. To get all 8 crafters in 200 scrip gear.

Basically if you never missed a red scrip and started collecting them on patch day. You wouldn't have finished gearing up your crafters in scrip gear til like 6 weeks into 4.0

[Zfz]

Sorry I am a little confused with your post but are you suggesting people actually want to use one set for all crafting and gathering gear?

I said "base glamour".

So I have my 320HQ, I glamour it to my 300 FSH gear. Then, my MIN and BTN will each use an ensemble that is glamoured to 300 MIN and 300 BTN gear respectively. Each of my gatherers will look different, but I only need to store the MIN and BTN sets in the Commode because my FSH set is glamoured directly onto the 320 gear as they are now. Hence, a total of 10 slots for gatherers.

There are 8 crafter classes, use 1 as the base glamour, then 7 ensembles. So that's 5x7=35 slots required.

The level 50 and 60 sets need to go into the Commode, so 11 classes (3 gatherer and 8 crafter) each needing 5 slots gives 11x2x5=110.

The total comes to 110+35+10 = 155 slots.

Now if I haven't been too cryptic, you'll see that just crafters and gatherers along will need 9 ensembles. This is even before the problem of Commode capacity. And that's why at the end of the post, I summed up my disapproval by asking that particular question.

[Vhailor]

I appreciate all these changes a lot btw, they're doing their best. Criticism is still good so that they can have goals to go for, things can always change in the future. How far if ever is up to them but it's good to add some opinions.

The problem I think is when people think their opinion is law and absolute.
Like I want disciple of land/hand gear to be used by any role but I know that's an opinion and I leave it to Yoshida and his team to think about. This is the approach everyone should take.

In some areas I agree, but not here.

I do agree that game design is something that, at times, rightly ignores or minimizes the opinions of the masses. If we crowd-sourced game design decisions, we would never have many of the seminal titles out there, the ones that surprised us, the ones that dared to be different and pulled it off.

On the other hand, developers frequently make mistakes, too. They make arbitrary and misguided decisions; implement game systems in short-sighted and problematic ways; they obfuscate or outright lie to justify mistakes. The development team at FFXIV has a track record of all three of these things.

Recognizing and adhering to their right to develop the game, to build FFXIV according to their own vision, is one thing. But that shouldn't extend to just softly saying "oh, well, that's their call as developers" when they do something stupid, or fail to properly fix long-running issues because "reasons" (which appears to be the path for this Glamour system they're cooking up). The development team gets a pass when it comes to creative content; it doesn't get a pass on technical f***-ups that are obvious to anyone with a working brain. On these issues, I'd argue they either get to fix the issue properly (a Glamour log) or explain precisely why such a feature isn't possible, and then seek input on preferred alternatives. Or, alternately, lose subscribers. But I don't think that's the route they want to take.

[Derio]

Did they specify whether or not the space from the armoire is separate from the 200 we get for the glamour log?

I know 200 is very small and needs to be expanded in the future.

[Syrehn]

Did they specify whether or not the space from the armoire is separate from the 200 we get for the glamour log?

I know 200 is very small and needs to be expanded in the future.

They need to get away from the "bag space" model entirely because it's full of limitations. People are going to hit the limit and it will take forever and a day to get the slots expanded because "server limitations".

Ideally, what they should have done is create a log that holds an ID list of all the gear items in the game. If the item is in your bag it "unlocks" that ID in the list (i.e. sets it to True). The user can then choose to keep that piece of gear for actual use (taking up a space in their regular bags) or toss it once the skin has been unlocked.

This is essentially what WOW has done with their Transmog system an it's truly a thing of beauty. Right now, what we're going to get is WOW's Void Storage system, it essentially functioned in the exact same way as the glamour toilet.

Why SE seems so stuck on this antiquated "bag" and "slots" path that they're not willing to give us a true system is beyond me. I'm not sure if they're just unwilling to put in the time to create a new system, because let's face it, extra bag slots is not a new system, or their initial coding is so bad that it's creating severe limitations.

Either way, we shouldn't be settling for what we're about to get.

[TR_RA]

Still doesn't address the issue of multiple jobs having the same glamour either.

No, but this is fine with me considering that it saves on armory space.