What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Tridus]

I don't understand what is so hard about not pushing your ideals on other people.

So you'd be supportive of a zero DPS, no cooldown using tank, right? After all, you shouldn't infringe on their playstyle choice, and so long as the mob is hitting them, which is what they're here for after all.

[Avatre]

Only times I don't DPS as a healer is when I'm paired up with a super squish tank. Though I try to get some DPS when I am paired with them(usually only in the forms of DoTs), I will prioritize the no-wipe run over DPSing and letting people die.

[Moogly]

You left out the portion where Cynfael qualified that both "always-DPS" and "never-DPS" players can be equal in terms of being unreceptive to overall party needs. I would also like to say that I find his/her posts to be among the most insightful and respectful on the healer forums. Let's stay objective!

I don't know about other matters, but on this particular one, he's been extremely offensive and harsh - I am really well placed to confirm that
Mostly what I reproach him on that point : the attitude or should I say, the lack of empathy.

What I understand from his sentence :
All pure healers are annoying.
Healers that dps and forget to heal are the only ones annoying (that's for sure, they're not doing their job !)

Again and again, pointing finger on all pure healers, putting them in the same bag regardless of their circonstance (newb, unskilled, lazy...), and comparing them to what everybody would obviously qualify as bad players (healer that don't heal).
That's a pretty harsh sophism I'm tempted to say.

I never said he was wrong on the fact that dps as healer is more efficient though, since that is also what I believe.

So you'd be supportive of a zero DPS, no cooldown using tank, right? After all, you shouldn't infringe on their playstyle choice, and so long as the mob is hitting them, which is what they're here for after all.

See what I'm saying now Valmaxian ?
Just because I'm asking for a little tolerance, I'm automatically tagged as the most horrible example of players you can meet on Eorzea...
This why that discussion will never get anywhere.

What you fail to understand about me Tridus : I don't support or oppose either side.
I d.o.n.t c.a.r.e
It's so simple as that, since once the dungeon is done, I most probably will never ever meet that player again...

[Claire_Pendragon]

If your asking why someone wouldnt DPS as a healer, id say its the number of tanks who cant handle the incoming dmg, where a single GCD is enough to take them from 100% to dead.
(and if they can survive a GCD, but the heals are slowly losing to the incoming dmg, then i also blame DPS for taking so long to kill anything.)
For me, I DPS, but in most SB dungeons, the tanks just arent geared enough, and are attempting pulls too dangerous for their gear, my gear, or the DPS gear levels. (While also not having the CDs to handle it.)
(Where tanks die is almost always consistant. So I'll assume the tank wont use CDs for that moment, or wont dodge for that moment, or wont stun the large aoes, and in turn save certain instant casts for those moments, so if normal auto attacks are bringing them down in a single GCDs, there's just no time to DPS.)

Anything between 15-61 and 70+ you have all the time in the world to DPS. Even a terrible tank leaves u plenty of room to DPS, even if its only 25% of what you'd normally do. (A lot of people confuse SB leveling dungeons as endgame dungeons, where the difficulty actually gets easier at Lv70, by at LEAST 4 times easier.)

But if I misread it, and you're asking why healers dont play different jobs, which DPS, then I couldnt say for them, but while I do play RDM, i tend to find most DPS boring. (Im also weird, in that people at work always love it when business is constant, as being busy makes time go by faster, but for me time drags on forever when busy, and time flies by when slow. I'm just wired differently)

[Squintina]

This is the one post that is spot on. Controllers do complicated it when switching between the party list and enemy list. They need to set filters and if they dont or don't know how. It hinders them.

The game does a terrible job of teaching controller.

If you know how, you can also do it easily without using filters.

Here's how I do it:
Up/down (d-pad) is used to heal your own party
Left-bumper(or L1) + up/down (d-pad) is used to target through the enmity list.
Left-bumper (or L1) + left/right (d-pad) is used for switching to Alliance targeting
So once the first heal is out, which pretty much gives some enmity on all nearby enemies, can just pick one from said list instead of using "tab/bumper" targeting+ filters.

Also learning soft vs hard targeting for those medium-difficulty runs.

Best ff14 controller guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._general_tips/

[Avatre]

Left-bumper(or L1) + up/down (d-pad) is used to target through the enmity list.

Alternatively switching through the enemies can be done holding R2 or L2 and hitting R1 for the one to the right of your current target, or L1 for the one to the left.

[Tridus]

Mostly what I reproach him on that point : the attitude or should I say, the lack of empathy.

Empathy for... what, exactly? Newbies don't know better, and everyone gives them a pass because of it. Veterans who should know better and simply decide not to are choosing to ignore a large part of their kit in favor of absolutely nothing.

Healers that dps and forget to heal are the only ones annoying (that's for sure, they're not doing their job !)

Your job as a group member is to actively contribute to the success of the group to the best of your ability. That goes for all group members in all roles. Doing nothing for 75% of the time when you have a way to use that time to actively contribute can get rather annoying, just like the guy in a group project who only shows up half the time and does the absolute least he can get away with to not have the rest of the group yank his name off the final report.

Again and again, pointing finger on all pure healers, putting them in the same bag regardless of their circonstance (newb, unskilled, lazy...), and comparing them to what everybody would obviously qualify as bad players (healer that don't heal).
That's a pretty harsh sophism I'm tempted to say.

Cynfael has been here for literally hundreds of pages of discussion on this topic already. One thread *alone* was over 100 pages, just recently. All of this has already been hashed out endlessly. Nobody suggests chasing down newbies in game and trying to harass them for not DPSing except pure healers trying to create a strawman to oppose. Because everyone's been a newbie and knows that newbies are often below the standard of play a skilled player would have. That's entirely normal.

That doesn't mean we set the expected level of play for healers so low that absolutely anyone with a pulse automatically passes with flying colors. At some point you need to graduate past that, which is exactly how every other role in the game works. Nobody gets upset that a level 32 DPS player doesn't know how to be effective yet. That guy in Rabanastre putting out 300 DPS and making everyone else carry him? You better believe that's going to upset people.

Literally the only difference is that there's nobody defending the other roles for bad play. They say "you need to learn how to do better, and we'll show you." Healers are unique in having this faction that says it's okay to be deliberately idle most of the time.

Just because I'm asking for a little tolerance, I'm automatically tagged as the most horrible example of players you can meet on Eorzea...

Please show me where I said that.

This why that discussion will never get anywhere.

This discussion never gets anywhere mostly because there's an inherent double standard, which is exactly why I asked the question I did. Why is a pure healer acceptable but a pure tank not? Both of them are doing the bare minimum they can get away with, but only one of them has a group of ardent defenders (and in your own words, the other is the most horrible player in Eorzea).

Why is that? This also applies to the infamous RDM who hated AoE and wanted to single target huge packs because they thought it was more fun. When they suggested that to other DPS players, you know what the response was? Acceptance of their unique playstyle choice, it was not.

At the end of the day, you're either actively contributing to the group to the best of your ability, or you're not. That's it. That standard applies equally across all three roles. Carving out a special case for healers where it's considered acceptable for them to stand around doing nothing for 75% of the dungeon but for nobody else to do that is hypocritical.

What you fail to understand about me Tridus : I don't support or oppose either side.
I d.o.n.t c.a.r.e

And yet, here you are, with multiple posts supporting one side. Go figure.

[Taika]

What I understand from his sentence :
All pure healers are annoying.

Again and again, pointing finger on all pure healers, putting them in the same bag regardless of their circonstance (newb, unskilled, lazy...), and comparing them to what everybody would obviously qualify as bad players (healer that don't heal).

With "pure healers" people generally refer to those who choose not to do any DPS even though they could (they have the skill, experience, MP, party etc.). In other words healers who are choosing to not be helpful to their party when they could be. I'm fairy certain Cynfael was writing about that type, especially since he described them as "I do what I want (and forget what the rest of you need)." Everyone is generally very understanding if healers don't DPS because they're completely new to the job or the circumstances (either personal or party or content related) don't allow them to.

[Rilifane]

In an MMO, as soon as you play with other players, it's a matter of respect to contribute as much as your respective skill level allows. If you are completely new to healing, nobody expects you to expertly heal only oGCD and dps the hell out of huge mob packs.
As already mentioned, newbies get a free pass.
But if you are past that, why deliberately chose to contribute a lot lass than the circumstances would allow (experienced enough, no squishy tank, enough mp etc)?
Piling up more responsibility on strangers just because you cannot be bothered to do more even if time & skill easily allows it is just plain inconsiderate and disrespectful.

3/7/23 other people would like to have fun aswell and doing more because others do less is annoying.

[Moogly]

Tridus, only problem is you just don't seem to understand how you and Cynfael can feel aggressive, and in the end, make me feel like you're full of yourselves.
And it's not even about gameplay or standards or whatever...

And yet, here you are, with multiple posts supporting one side.

Thing is, you actually never really understood, or tried to understand my point, since when I'm reading you I'm always facepalming like "Good lord, what is he talking about... I never even remotely said that !"
Always turning around to extremes what I'm saying to fit your point.
That really doesn't give me the will to argue about that matter.
I am kind of tired to always requote myself, rephrase myself, when I already made my point more than crystal clear.
That's why I say it will never go anywhere.

At work, I do have to manage some situations where I have groups of people from different ethnicity having to work and live together for relatively long periods of time (weeks).
And it's serious stuff, people are having arguments over religious or cultural stuffs...
If I was applying your methods, like imposing a unique standard and make everybody bend to it, some people would have fighted each other, or nobody would've stayed in more than 2 days....
That is what you guys have trouble understanding.
That is what I mean by not pushing your ideals on other people.
That is what I call being tolerant.
To make things work, you sure can ask from people. But you also need to accept that other people are different and do not live by your standards, even if you or the majority believe your standards are the right one.

Now stop thinking about progress, high end play, top tier, efficiency for a couple seconds.

Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins.
We are free to live as we want, regardless of people who think that their way of living is superior than ours. However, there is a fine line: if we start to impose restrictions on others’ freedom, then we can’t describe it in the limits of our own freedom. These acts that threaten the freedom of others should simply be taken into consideration as violations.
There is no definite "middle" as it is an extremely subjective matter... hence it is impossible to define what are those limits. You can even start to say who's totally right or who's totally wrong.
That's why I keep saying it will never go anywhere.
To be honest, if you can't live with that, you should never step into the roulette dungeons and only play with your premade...

Everyone is generally very understanding if healers don't DPS because they're completely new to the job or the circumstances

Hopefully, it is very true.
But if you keep having more and more people having an "elitist" pov on how healer must be played, you'll only end up with a WoW like atmosphere... Community pressure.
May be they don't yell on newbies, sure, but I've been playing mmo long enough to tell you that kids love being jerks online, and that they're not setting a good example at all.
I mean, in Omega I remember some people yelling on others for messing up mechanics... one day after raid release... What kind of joke is that ?
Are those people actually having fun while playing ?
Or is it 45 minutes of frustration for 5 seconds of satisfaction ?
That's why I keep saying, they should be tolerant in the roulette...
Deal with it, life goes on !

If they want to be elitist in their own PF, they have all the rights to though !