What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Tiva]

I was the person who mentioned using the macro. Oh and that's pretty much the only macro I play with, so I assure you I'm not trying to do *everything* with macros. ^^

I think when I made the macro I was looking for an easy way to put my DPS spells in easy reach (the 1, 2, and 3 keys) for when I switched to Cleric Stance. This also (ideally) would serve as another indication of when I was cleric stance. Look at my bars and if it's my DPS spells I'm in cleric, if it's my healing spells then I'm not. I can't remember exactly where I saw the idea to create a macro like that. It may have been on here, it was a while ago. The thing that always strikes me as odd about it is that the command to change the bars is after the command to trigger Cleric Stance, so I would think that if something would be skipped it would be the changing bars.

Would you mind explaining why it's an inefficient way to play? Is it that there are issues with lag and commands not going through? I'm more of a casual player and don't tend to push progression too much, but I still like to play as well as I can.

I think to me, it's a bit cringey because when I'm dpsing, I dps until the last second, then I usually use lustrate/ed/tetra on the tank, maybe heal them 1 more time, then go right back into cleric. The transition between cleric and off cleric is seamless. If I had to wait the milliseconds for the macro to swap out my skills when I drop cleric, I couldn't clip it as much. But maybe this is just an exaggeration that only really effects the top .1% of raiders (which definitely doesn't include me LOL). It would be really hard for me to tell how much delay it gives unless I changed my UI to do that and played with it. Macros have an inherent delay in this game. I personally do use some, and would probably be crucified for mine by speedrunners (kind of already was LOL) but I do so with the knowledge that that delay exists. Also you cannot queue skills with macros or something like that. Someone else that understands this better can chime in.

The level of play is always something I try to keep in mind though. I got into an argument with a speedrunner recently about a topic that in my opinion only really affects speedrunners and probably no other players in the entire game. But he couldn't see it from my pov... something that is a QOL increase for many players and commonly used, in his pov should never be used by anyone because it will affect thier play. And my pov was that most people are not chasing thier GCD enough for it to matter for them, so just let them do it. This is like a similar thing... You say you are a more casual player... I have to ask myself, does doing this really affect your play? I honestly think probably not much, and the times that it does are likely far enough between that the QOL increase for you is high enough to keep doing it.

It will only matter for another month now anyway, then you will have to undo it probably cus RIP cleric stance.

I want to elaborate further because I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining myself... for example, when I used to play bard back in the day, I had a macro that put bloodletter into some of my other skills, so I would definitely hit it asap when it popped up. This is regarded to be bad, because it delays your skills and you can't queue skills with macros. So I got to the point where I wanted to increase my dps, and many people were like, YOU NEED TO GET RID OF THAT MACRO!!!! ITS MAKING YOU LOOSE DPS!. So I did. And I kind of expected to have a big dps increase from doing that. But I didn't. Then I was confused. People were saying this macro was a big problem... so why didn't I see a big dps increase when I dropped it??? The thing now that I understand is... I was loosing MUCH more dps by not chasing the GCD as well as I should have, and by having shit dot uptime. The bloodletter thing probably contributed, sure. But it wasn't the BIG reason I was loosing dps. It was a relatively minor one tbh. So some times I think people try and look for the glaring easy fixes. Or they perseverate on something, the way people hate macros. But in reality the problem may have nothing to do with the macro (or little to do with it) and much more to do with some other problem. But people can't see past one thing that is suboptimal, and until you change it and are STILL having a problem, they won't bother trying to look any anything else. Thankfully I got much better at reviewing my own logs and identifying issues by myself. Now my problems are more along the lines of... I know what i'm doing different from other healers... but b/c of this issue or because of panic I'm not doing as much at them because I'm loosing dot uptime here/here/here, etc. So I'm not ignorant anymore, but I still can't do as much as others, which is fine with me cus I still have improved a lot and that was my goal

[OcieKo]

Ok AST main, frequent Tank, crap DPS player (if were talking just DPS #s like many do). Will edit and continue likely long post in a moment. Planning, on doing reasons why/when I personally choose not to DPS as healer. And some perpectives on the matter from the tank perspectives and less so DPS perspective. Lastly comment on a few of the slightly related healer troubles questions that popped up. If the tank/dps oriented thoughts feel out of place make note and i can get around to removing, but as of the current state of this thread, it may prove useful.

Reasons I Choose Not to DPS

-Just Plain Lazy: I'd be lying if I didn't include it. Maybe I'm tired, just out of it, or been tanking all day and just want a nice relaxing ez-mode healing run.

-Start of Every PUG/DF Group: Honestly I simply consider this good advice for healers as it ties in with many other reasons myself and many of you here choose not to DPS. I use the time generally at most up thru boss 1 to decide how much I'll dps throughout the run if at all. It's a matter of scoping out my teams strengths/weaknesses and any obvious problems that will likely pop up, I do keep this up throughout the whole run and will change my mind if it takes a turn for the worse, but generally the first 5-10 min is enough to figure out what's going on.

-Tank Does Mass Pulls: At worst the time between CS activation and your first decent sized heal is 7.5s. Which means you need to be able to assure yourself about 8-9s of "safe" time if you wish to use CS, more often than not in the first half of a mass pull before the weaker mobs start to die off, you won't have this reliably.

-Tank Stays in DPS Stance: As a general rule, if a tank goes into DPS stance while actively tanking, I stop DPSing. Note I say "while actively tanking" so as to remove OT having nothing to do but DPS or phases of some boss fights theres really no dedicated tank dmg going out. I find many tanks dont consider the defense loss of switching out of tank stance since their health is the same or in WARs case, "sure you do less healing, but I have less hp". It can vastly reduce your safetime and in many cases make the random spikes way worse.

-Main Healer/Off-Healer: Since I usually do 8m/24m content with my friend as the co-healer, I'm usually the DPS/Support heavy half of this but still. From the MH half its simply easier to focus on the group and support and reduce overlapping heals causeing waste when both pop out to "oh shit" heal. From the OH half with my friend, I generally take over most of the rezzing, cleansing, support functions, since I main AST I tend to be more card oriented during these times. Since weve played together like this for almost 2 years we practically play like this naturally. So a lot of those really hard to weave in functions I can just ignore a few malefic 2s while my dots tick to do them. And for fights Alex Gordias 1, splitting the tank duties so each of us really only heals one of them is done. Honestly having a constant co-healer/tank is invaluable, if you get the chance to play this way enjoy it, makes it so much more fun when you get your "play room" back.

-New Content: Just like the start of a PUG, this is just plain good advice. Given that I tend to play a lot of different jobs given my whims I generally use my first 3-5 runs to figure things out for the 4 major roles while I'm healing as I find my situational awareness is best when I am healing, might just be that ive been doing it for some 15 years now. But this also lets me scope out what AoEs, tank busters, low incoming damage spurts I can expect.

-Really Bad DPS: I don't mean their actual DPS is bad I mean those expletives who dont give a flying ----- about their lives and believe its my problem. I also tend to God-Mode here and nerf their DPS with rez sickness a few times until they get the idea... Dodge. Second Wind. Bloodbath. Love Em.

-Really Good DPS: It seems weird I know, but I'm sure many of you have hit those groups where the DPS just melt everything so fast on their own, by the time the fight stabilized to the point of you having your 8s+ of free time its practically over. I like these groups, I tend to play the AST card phishing game here more often, rather than phishing to be ready for bosses only.

-While Teaching: Whether it be random newbies or friends for new content, I simply use my DPS time to type out tips, boss strategies, point out flaws that can be improved, bring up synergies that can be used, or bring attention to kinds of situational awareness that can come in handy. It's just practical, and honestly reducing my personal DMG output at these times especially when I'm heavily syncd gives the learner more time to practice the knowledge I'm trying to convey. Win-Win really, also in many cases it's better than just stopping progress altogether since its often that your not teaching a whole group just 1 person, and the rest really just want to get through and keep making progress.

-Group Trust Lacking: Self explanatory enough.

Those are probably the biggies for me, may rember more later. Save/Break Point.

Tanks in Relation to Healers:
-CD Usage: pay attention to your tanks buffs, some tanks (myself include) use their defense CDs when they know some sort of damage is incoming, this can be a notice to stop dps. Keep in mind there are some pure buff rotation tanks out there, so make sure you know which they are. One buff of particular note is PLD Divine Veil which requires a heal to activate, and if you notice it, you can pop it waaaay faster than the PLD themselves can.
-Notice of Pull Style: its rare, but sometimes tanks will notify you of their pull style or ask how much your comfortable with if they dont pull the obvious amount. Personally I chain pull and don't notify, but as a career healer I'm watching for the healer issues associated with it myself anyways, which kindof mitigates them possibly not being familliar with it. The 2 major issues with chain pulling, is lack of mp regen time, faster moves between smaller mob pulls, and occassionally pulling the next group before the last mob dies. Healers sometimes dont start running timely or may run low on mp, a tank whos practiced at this like myself is taking a break when healer mp is low or slows down and pops cds when they fall behind. Not all will. Mass pulls, when your ready for it, they're nice and smooth at it, and you have a good DPS set up for it (oh gawd when tanks do this with DRG/MNK combos /cry) these arent bad. Beware of your stop-go mass pullers, bad things can happen really easily with them.
-Regens on Tanks: planning on going into depth on this at the end to expand upon what was already provided.
-Tank Stance: partially touched upon in my healer section, but that one was pretty jaded to why I dont like the tank in DPS stance. On a side note, for tanks like myself who tend to stay in tank stance, you will have more of a window to DPS. As a personal note I'm fairly certain a healer can pull off more DPS when one stays in tank stance than a tank can do more of by switching to a dps stance. I have nothing concrete to back it up, i just feel it.

DPS in Relation to Healers:
-They Use Their Defensive CDs: Bloodbath when they know dmg is coming to them. Second Wind when they screw up. Mantra when a group wide AoE is coming. Assorted defensive CDs when the tank dies or they get aggro. Use their enmity modifiers when needed. Be nice to these ones, for when your thinking about comms remember the ones that are doing it all, I tend to comm dps who are ontop of their own defenses and support skills. Staying alive is NOT just the healer's responsibility. Beware DPS that believe anything related to HP and incoming DMG is hour problem, and anything related to aggro position is the Tanks problem exist, they can and will ruin your life and give you reason to not DPS.
-Summoner's Who Use Rez: I don't mean the ones you gotta bring it up to, I mean those summoners in 8/24s that realize hey the healers only have 4k mana left and people keep dropping like flies so they start rezzing. The one's who just take over the duty are nice, they get my comms and all, but here were more concerned with the ones who notice a problem happening and work towards fixing it on their own, not spam down their mana with Ruin 3 sans dreadwyrm /cry, yes I've seen it, right after asking for help rezzing. Also pay attention to the ones who make use of having Eye for an Eye and Virus so that you dont overlap with them. Tho I believe SMN is losing access to those 2 in SB.
-Bard/MCH soon Casters: Resource Replenishment. Now while MP is noteworthy for us as healers personally, keep note of when they use TP regens after AoE phases or when a physical DPS gets rezzed. When SMN/BLM get access to an MP transfer in SB be nice to the ones that refund their own rez or realize when your getting strapped for MP and give you a boost. Special Shoutout to Bard's who use Warden's Paeon to help with Cleanses or prevent the need for one in the first place, its rare but it helps.

Commentary on Previous Healer Questions:

The Regen Dilemma: The basics on what the issue is has been gone over, I won't shoot the pony. While the original inquirer has a consistent tank which makes this point easier, I'll phrase it for random tank use, on a familliar tank you'll simply have less thinking at he beginning. When you get into a dungeon start feeling out how much damage your tank is taking, how quickly your dps are dropping the mobs, and about how much time you have until the next pull. Also be VERY AWARE of how long your regens last, I dont mean watch em tick down like a hawk, but when you a play a healer long enough you get a sort of innate sense of when its going to fall off +/- 2s or so. When running group content your goal is to have your final regen tick happen as the last mob dies, realistically this will be rare, but you can pretty easily get it to a point where you really only have to pop 1 or 2 basic heals between your last regen and the end of a fight.
General rule of them when to start healing: when the tank stops moving for 2-3s and turns to face the mobs, this ties into why I hate stop-go mass pullers, figuring this out gets waaaaay too hard. If your regular (friends/company members/etc) tanks do this work with them to fix it, with a little practice you can learn the timing to hit an AoE so itll hit most of the mobs as you pass, or to jump before AoEing so your current movement isnt halted, or to simultaneously switch to walking backwards so you can use an aoe behind you (mostly WAR on this one given the lack of reliable PBAOE moves). Ideally theyll only bother to tap one with a ranged hit and just keep running, but some tanks are uncomfortable with that, and many DPS aren't patient. If they can manage to do the tap one of every group as they go without issue while smoothly moving, your queue to start is when they stop and do a 180 and start spamming AOE enmity.

Hopefully this helps with those of you sharing the same issue with her.

[Asheilin]

-Main Healer/Off-Healer:
-New Content:
-Really Bad DPS:
-While Teaching:
-Group Trust Lacking: Self explanatory enough.

You have a few fantastic points, that really are important for me.
This is my main things though:

While all are accurate, MH/OH is a main one for me personally. I have zero trust in OTHER healers in the 24m raids. This has been reinforced by having pug groups where I get those Sch who never cast an Aldo and is in Clerics 100% of the time, even when I've died to something or have no mp and they're still doing damage. When I get paired with a second Ast, its much the same; or they overwrite my aoe balance with an aoe arrow and after the third or fourth time I pretend I'm a crappy Sch or crappy whm and ignore cards altogether while I heal and they dps and card everyone. Most of the time when I'm paired with whm, they at least get Medica II on everyone at least once before they go dps mode.
I'm ok playing MH, prefer it actually having learned healing in mmos where healers only did damage outside of group play or when there was literately nothing to be done otherwise. I also preform what I call "Raid-Heals" in which I'm also trying to keep alive the other 2 tanks, the other 4 healers and tossing hots on the dps if they drop below ~30%.

Outside of that, though I do dps but I hate clerics with a passion. I'll dot out of clerics 90% of the time but will switch on boss fights if I think the party can survive it long enough. I've complained about the Damage being Int since I started at ARR pre-launch. I'm so hyped for SB and the MND change (I'm guessing it will be a 2 or 3 to 1 dmg formula where I assume SMN/BLM is a 1 to 1. to keep healer dps still on a good level) but Cleric buff could be really thrilling--if it keeps the Heal potency drop I'll still probably only use it on bosses but if that's removed? I will be one ecstatic healer that can dps without CLERIC STANCE HEALS because that only happens 1-2 times EVERY time I pop clerics in a dungeon run.

[OcieKo]

Snip. >>Sorry to just poof it , but I do all this with an ipad and touch screen keyboard, picking out the parts i want is super hard. OcieKo<<

For the most part I agree with you on the MH/OH issue, when its just me 9/10 I'm living under the impression I'm the MH or only healer. In my case most of the time it's me and her, and the trust/compatibility/synergy has been worked to near perfection for over two years (met a little after World of Darkness released, been constant since) and quite frankly shes not as big a fan of DPSing as I am. Like you shes also prone to non-CS DoTing.

On raid-healing, I'm the same usually in 24mans im using rez on all 3 parties and popping regen on the MT. I come from an EQ1/EQ2/WoW Shamans background with a little Cleric/Priest/Druid mixed in for flavor, been the raid/dps healer through it all. I'm that weirdo whos also a better OT than MT since for WOW its what i played a tank to do, and I was deliberatly taught how to do it as well, so things like map and situation awareness are a core part of my skill set. Tho I tend to forget the boss does stuff too sometimes... You may also be like me and get aggravated that AoE heals can only affect your own group in this game. I get it with the AoE regens and shield givers, but come on with the Cure 3s, Helios, and Medica 1, srsly. Collective Unconcious and the SCH flat aoe heal get an honorable mention here. Cure 3 is probably the wost to not have it in this set, considering its a TBAoE thats pretty much only good for melee DPS, stack mechanics, and when it procs, since anyone else is too spread out for its radius to hit others, and its MP efficiency is too low to use on low target counts.

And mentioning MP shortages reminded me of another big reason why I dont DPS
-Min Remaining MP: For me, I find an MP point that I'll only pass for the purpose of healing, again this is a practice I think most healers should have in place. Personally its around 5-6k MP around 35-40% of my total MP, it leaves me with enough MP to rez someone, cast aspected helios, cast aspected benefic on the tank, and use a few more benefic 1s. Once I drop to here I stick to just heals until around 70-80% MP roughly 8.5-10k before I pick up DPS again. Another good habit in relation to this for healers to be in is to use their MP generators earlier, especially if your DPS is whats draining your MP. For WHM/AST with the longer duration lower MP refresh around 50-70% just use it if things are generally going well and your not worried about getting MP back after dying. For SCHs know the MP amount your Aetherflow and Energy Drain grant you. For Aetherflow, you should always have a stack if your Aetherflow is up, no good reason to have no stacks and the ability to use it, i your case Aetherflow being on CD isnt nearly as problem prone as Shroud/Luminiferous in the same. If your MP get really low or you die, dont be afraid of just Aertherflow > Energy Drain x3, in many cases the MP granted can come in more handy than one of your aetherflow using skills, if you want use 2 and save one for an emergency or post tank buster lustrate. Also if your aetherflow off cd and has 1 stack left, but you dont really need the mp say its kindof smooth going and your at 8k/12k mp and flow is say 2.5k mp and drain is 800mp just go ahead and Energy Drain > Aetherflow to refresh your stacks, its better in the long run.

Another piece of genrally good advice: Learn about the other jobs. When your playing with friends and fellow Free Company members take time to discuss what their capable of and what kind of problems they generally have, this can help you figure out what to look out for when certain jobs are i your group, and you can use it to figure out how to extend that buffer window. Albiet with the much appreciated INT>MND and Cleric Stance changes, this windows size reqs are getting cut down to a 3rd within the month, but still.

[kagemitsu]

Speaking for myself, it all comes down to a matter of confidence.

I chose to go AST as my healing job and I'm still fairly clumsy with it. Stance dancing, on top of dealing with cards and when to buff who can be a lot to take in for first timers like myself. If it looks like I'm not DPSing is because I'm still gauging when I can or can't do it. As you get more comfortable with the job, I think DPSing comes naturally as a way to fill gaps when no one is in direct danger of dying and you find yourself with nothing to do.

That applies to duties. In raids and more challenging content I'd probably avoid DPSing unless we're doing really well, because mana conservation can be an issue in longer fights, and also I'd hate to see someone get oneshot because I was busy spamming Malefic in Cleric's Stance.

[Celef]

Personnaly I don't because of cleric stance. Months ago it decided to bug and start refusing to diseapper when I remove it resulting in unplanned deaths -_-

[Zeldert-Castiel]

1. On my personal experience in The Vault, I ran out of MP twice and can't heal the whole team. I had to cleric stance.
2. I'm afraid I'll pull aggro higher than the tank.
3. The tank or DPS might dealt heavy damage while I'm DPSing, so I have to use the remaining time to prevent them die.
4. I chose my job as a healer, DPSing is not required except extremely needed.

[Cynfael]

There’s a punchline somewhere about a poster with the name “Castiel” in their handle and so many threads coming back from the dead, but I’m not yet sufficiently awake to find it.

[Nergui]

I'm relatively new to FFXIV (1 month) and during a Stone Vigil run as WHM, I was told to only use Aero.

[Cynfael]

I'm relatively new to FFXIV (1 month) and during a Stone Vigil run as WHM, I was told to only use Aero.

1. Welcome to FFXIV Don't mind us salty divas here. Healers sustain themselves on tears and whine.

2. Also don't mind the player who told you to use only Aero; that isn't correct.


The nugget of truth in what they might have been trying to say is that, while you're learning the Healer role, throwing up DoTs and maintaining them is a good way to start getting comfortable with weaving in DPS. However, as you gain more comfort and competency, you will find that, in most situations, there is no shortage of opportunities to use Stone (Malefic, Broil, what-have-you) while also maintaining your DoTs. These windows will also become more obvious as you level up and gain access to more and more efficient and powerful healing tools.