Rival Wings rewards (exp/tomes)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I seem to remember that PvP still did happen despite GC restrictions complicating matchmaking back then, no XP given at all, low tome rewards in comparison to everything else, and the larger body of players avoiding it over misconceptions. Not to mention that "terribly unbalanced" 3.x PvP system. . .

[RiyahArp]

Yes, and it wound up taking 30 minutes to get a single 8v8v8 match. This mode doubles the amount of players needed, while offering less overall incentive to do it. I'm saying there is a danger later on due to this that SE may want to consider.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's widely known that the lengthy queue times were largely due to GC restrictions and imbalances. You weren't going to get a 24 man match when there's 12 Mael, 8 Adders, and only 4 Flames. Then 3.5 and Freelancer happens, and look how magically queue times improved?

As for incentive:

1. It's new content during a "drought".
2. Do you like PvP?
3. Do you want a Magitek gorilla mount?
4. Do you just. . . REALLY like the Alexander mechs?

In all honesty, #2 is enough for me. Not everything needs a carrot and stick in this game. I continued to actively play and enjoy Frontlines after getting everything from it, and I can see myself still playing and enjoying Rival Wings after the mount too. Even more if they give it the fixes it needs.

[RiyahArp]

"I don't need any real incentives to do anything, therefore it should be fine if no one has any." Meanwhile the idea of incentives acting as something that helps keep you playing when you

1. have past the drought
2. have seen the meta backwards and forwards
3. have the gorilla
4. get used to the mechs

I guess just doesn't come into mind. Ah well, this playerbase...man, I never thought people want to return to 3.0 anyways, nothing should surprise me by now.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I never said no one should have rewards or incentives, but the way people use them as a talking point makes me wonder sometimes if anyone actually plays this because they enjoy it, or if it's all just about grinding out reward after reward and never being satisfied at all?

As for 3.x PvP, you have to remember: we didn't ask for 4.x PvP's changes. Maybe a few of the good things we got, but it was quite a blindside for the PvP community. A "by the way, we're changing everything about PvP and never said anything til now, despite all the feedback and asking for information" on SE's part. And by and large the original community that played it (and NOT the ones that avoided it like the plague) aren't happy with the changes. I pointed out before that you've covered the things that were wrong with 3.x PvP, but often overlook what was actually right all along.

[Wintersandman]

oh i mean on total it felt like a nerf compared to others. I was leveling my red mage to 60 and did it, and losses gave like 120k exp or so while wins 240k. Its really low for a frontlines mode overall.

Pre-60 Frontlines is a waste. It gives a % of the exp required. PotD falls off at 60 and that is where frontlines comes in. I received 800k Exp at level 65 on my whm in PvP, which is way better than PotD at 500k.

Ah well, this playerbase...man, I never thought people want to return to 3.0 anyways, nothing should surprise me by now.

What is better about the 4.x system? The only thing is the resistances.

[Istaru]

I never said no one should have rewards or incentives, but the way people use them as a talking point makes me wonder sometimes if anyone actually plays this because they enjoy it, or if it's all just about grinding out reward after reward and never being satisfied at all?

As for 3.x PvP, you have to remember: we didn't ask for 4.x PvP's changes. Maybe a few of the good things we got, but it was quite a blindside for the PvP community. A "by the way, we're changing everything about PvP and never said anything til now, despite all the feedback and asking for information" on SE's part. And by and large the original community that played it (and NOT the ones that avoided it like the plague) aren't happy with the changes. I pointed out before that you've covered the things that were wrong with 3.x PvP, but often overlook what was actually right all along.

All of this!

[RiyahArp]

The pvp community wanted tomes removed from seal rock. It wanted the dueling circle, which pretty much is useless on just about every server. It wanted light party feast to have the same rewards as normal feast, and they didn't even bother playing it, enabling people to easily win trade and forcing SE to remove the mode. The PvP community played Feast so little after a point that they more or less cut the seasons duration immensely. The pvp thinks 3.0 is good when you could barely find healers who wanted to do it due to all those moves you think added so much skill to the game, and forgets everything bad or crappy about the mode. I don't know why I should trust their judgment.

[Mirch]

The pvp community wanted tomes removed from seal rock. It wanted the dueling circle, which pretty much is useless on just about every server. It wanted light party feast to have the same rewards as normal feast, and they didn't even bother playing it, enabling people to easily win trade and forcing SE to remove the mode. The PvP community played Feast so little after a point that they more or less cut the seasons duration immensely. The pvp thinks 3.0 is good when you could barely find healers who wanted to do it due to all those moves you think added so much skill to the game, and forgets everything bad or crappy about the mode. I don't know why I should trust their judgment.

someone is triggered e_e

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The community wanted the incentive for people to come in, NOT participate, and be rewarded removed. We enjoy getting tomes from our preferred endgame of choice, but disliked others who held it in contempt trying to use it for selfish gain.

We wanted the ability to duel. . . They gave us ONE PLACE to do it. And while you consider it useless, it's drawn the attention of the curious and gotten them to actually try PvP. I personally met and began training my first "student" on day one, and went on to teach others from there, eventually creating Goblin's most successful PvP linkshell and connecting the various PvPers on the server. I still see random people, not even regular PvPers pop up there from time to time to duel each other for fun.

Light Party offering rewards, again, unfortunately drew people who sought to exploit it for selfish gain. SE removed that not because of them, but because they have plans to relaunch a more formal, structured Light Party Feast.

The lack of rating decay and desire to rank up fast to avoid the new, the curious, and admittedly, the lesser skilled is what makes Feast seasons slow down over time. Poor matchmaking poses greater risk to higher ranks when placed with lower ranks that, now, can't be effectively communicated with. That has nothing to do season duration.

There are PLENTY of successful healers from previous seasons under the 3.x PvP system, some even top 10. Your statement is both untrue and heavily based on a personal opinion, and just as said before, you see all that was wrong, and not what was right all along.

As far as judgements are concerned, who would it make more sense to listen to, the active community that formed around and enjoyed that "terrible" 3.x PvP where everyone else hated and avoided it purely from word of mouth or personal bias, or those people who hated and avoided it, yet would turn around and say "the Nadaam is awesome! We want this for PvP!" but wouldn't touch Seal Rock? Should SE listen to casters on how to build a better Bard or Machinist? I mentioned that for a reason; the PvP community was just as unpleasantly surprised as BRDs were in Heavensward when they were suddenly made into half-casters. Bards didn't ask for that change, and they didn't like it. This is no different.

We get it: you didn't like 3.x PvP, nor healing in that system. Many loved it and had no issue with it, and to have it suddenly torn away and replaced with an unfinished "foundation" of a system is a huge disappointment. The part of the community that actually liked PvP - and played it - now does not like it, and the ones that disliked it without trying it now suddenly like it. And not even for the actual gameplay, but just another means to an end. Tomes and exp, both of which they can still obtain in greater amounts from other content. . . Do you see where the issue is there?