Prohibit the advertising of content sales via the cross-server PF

[Kisagami]

You need to report these guys. They are manipulating a system to do already prohibited activity. Make a screenshot, use something like Imgur to host it, send the link via the “Report Harassment” button under Support Desk. It is used for more than harassment - you can report cheaters, bots, and all kinds of things through it. You’ll help SE crack down on the behavior.

[HyoMinPark]

You need to report these guys. They are manipulating a system to do already prohibited activity. Make a screenshot, use something like Imgur to host it, send the link via the “Report Harassment” button under Support Desk. It is used for more than harassment - you can report cheaters, bots, and all kinds of things through it. You’ll help SE crack down on the behavior.

GMs have stated multiple times that they cannot accept screenshots and/or videos as evidence of any sort of “illegal” activities because of the fact that they can be altered. They can only accept in-game logs showing chat and any other activity since those cannot be altered.

If there is no real-money being traded, selling content for in-game gil is not against the ToS. The only thing that would be against it in that situation would be if the people selling the content actually logged into the buyer’s account to do the content. If there’s real-money being involved, that’s a different story, but for in-game gil, it’s technically not against any rules.

All this being said, the GMs can ban one group, and another will just pop up. This has been happening for forever, so it’s doubtful it will go away any time soon. I just ignore the adverts whenever I’m browsing PF.

[Vnolan]

You need to report these guys. They are manipulating a system to do already prohibited activity. Make a screenshot, use something like Imgur to host it, send the link via the “Report Harassment” button under Support Desk. It is used for more than harassment - you can report cheaters, bots, and all kinds of things through it. You’ll help SE crack down on the behavior.

I made an initial report with the STF, but the I remembered you are given no record of reports and bots I reported a year ago are still active and still botting, so I decided to try your suggestion.

Here are different automated responses I received:
"We are aware of the disruptions caused by Real Money Trading (RMT), and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. We take every measure to stop violations of the User Agreement, and will certainly look in to this matter. If you have included names in your report, then the matter will be recorded and investigated"

"We understand that your time is valuable and appreciate your efforts to report and explain your concerns. If you wish to respond directly about this issue.... (the usual)"

"The initial support request that was submitted about this matter has entered our queue, and it will be addressed by a GM as soon as possible. As we have received multiple requests for assistance with this concern, we will only be able to address the initial call. Should you have additional... (the usual)"

"We have received your report regarding grief tactics and we apologize for any disruption that this has caused. Please accept out apologies for being unable to speak with you directly... (the usual)"

"We understand that it is frustrating to have these types of advertisements sent to you, since RMT can be disruptive both to chat and to the ability to enjoy the game.Unfortunately, due to the number of reports that we have received about this customer, a personal response is not possible at this time. Our efforts are being focused on investigating this advertiser, and preventing them from continuing to advertise in the game.

To help prevent further messages from this advertiser, we recommend using the blacklist, which can be accessed.. (the usual)"

Edit: I responded to the above indicating it was being done by cross-server pf (was mentioned in the original report) and that blacklisting has no effect.

Automated Response: "We are aware that the use of third party programs has caused disruptions for many players, and we take every measure to stop violations of the User Agreement. If you have included names in your report...(the usual)" Edit ends here.

I spoke with two GMs. One seemed to consider it a bit odd, took down some information and said they would investigate.

Some back and forth with the other GM:
GM: Did they mention to you or have they said they're selling clears for real money? (paraphrased)
I point out that the listings are currently up in the party finder, are being shown to the whole data center and receiving payment across servers requires the uses of real money or RMT services
GM:"I see, according to the logs they seem to only be selling runs for Gil and that they have it listed cross-world by default."
GM: "Selling runs for Gil is not against the terms of service."
GM: "I feel that I have everything I need to begin my investigation. Before I take my leave is there anything else that I may be able to assist you with today?"
I ask if they can request the advertisers to uncheck the option that has the listings being shown across the data center.
GM: "No I can not"
GM: "Players are allowed to do this and it would be interruption of their game play if I were to make them stop."
Me: Even though it's across the data center? (paraphrased)
GM: "That's correct."
Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)
The GM then ends the conversation.

Thoughts?

[Vidu]

Me: How are they receiving gil across servers? (paraphrased)

Thoughts?

Let me say first: I never was in the buisness of selling runs (seriously, why would I when crafting is so easy...) but I dont mind it being a thing - if someone wants to pay for a clear, thats their choice. If a group is good enough to carry someone, thats their thing. I dont have to like it and neither do you, but my personal stance is: Its their buisness and frankly I dont see why you'd get offended by that. Or why you're more offended by that than by people recruiting for statics using the cross-server-option. Or for even FCs, LS and such. I get your RMT-argument, and yes, RMT is a problem but this isnt RMT, its selling clears.

And heres the thing now: You dont knwo 100% that there is RMT or real money involved - its extremly likely, I'll grant you that (and my best guess aswell). But unless there are records you dont know and you have no proof of that. For all you, we and the GMs know they might be paid by the buyer joining their discord and singing Answers for the group. Or the buyer is required to get the money to them somehow - and if its transfering servers. The group could also have alts on different servers, so the payment could go to one of them. Or the group is scattered in the first place.

My point is: The obvious conclusion here is that some sort of trade outside of the game, not involving gil, is involved. But at the end of the day there is the slim chance that they're handling it differently.
And to be fair: I dont really understand how this is more annoying to anyone than any sort of recruiting for a static PFs and why thats not considered "spam" then.

So, my personal thoughts are: I'm not bothered by this and I dont really understand why you are.

[Vnolan]

People also try to recruit for FCs cross-server. People try to sell houses cross-server. People try to recruit for treasure maps cross-server.

Why assume this is all about RMT? Seems just as (or more) likely that people are just ignorant, oblivious, or just dumb.

There are players that mistakenly have the data center option checked when listing stuff that only applies to the server, but they're few and far between, are not all the same type of listing, don't require interested parties to contact them outside of the game and it's not the same people doing it. Also, they don't know to not advertise server-specific content across the data center, but they know to select duties such as Lak, Sus and Expert Roulette to maximize visibility? Of the people who mistakenly list hunts, treasure hunting, sales of crafts and the like, how many have you seen use the wrong duty? I can't recall any.

Its their buisness and frankly I dont see why you'd get offended by that.

Read the thread, people. It's in the title and one of my responses on the first page: The advertising using the cross-server party finder, NOT the selling itself. Ain't nothing SE can do about sales, regardless of payment method used.

I get your RMT-argument, and yes, RMT is a problem but this isnt RMT, its selling clears.

Across servers. That requires buyers to use real money or to buy gil and have it sent to that server.

And heres the thing now: You dont knwo 100% that there is RMT or real money involved - its extremly likely, I'll grant you that (and my best guess aswell).

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o6nV2JsWpUnl3ftvO
https://giphy.com/gifs/xUNd9zOyaVyCQSX3CU
https://giphy.com/gifs/l4EoSCItlaeHCTT1u

We don't know 100% that the player is botting, so it should be allowed and it shouldn't be reported? The majority of player botting is done as shown.

Spoilers: It's one of the so-called advertisers while their pf is up across the data center.

Or the buyer is required to get the money to them somehow - and if its transfering servers.

Pay real money to transfer servers after going through the hassle of having yourself meet the requirements, or use that money to buy gil and have it sent to the seller? Hmm.

You have no proof people buy with RMT gil through PF and you also have to know most just put the PF up without cling that one button, yes I know it take less than 5 seconds. But that happens to me too. I honestly refuse to take money from people from other servers as well.

Context for people not on Aether: At it's peak, there are 5+ advertisers in the cross-server pf at the same time. You'd be hard pressed to find 5 incorrect listings like you describe in total. It's the same people from the same servers.

I'll reiterate the ending of my OP: I'd love if they add filters to hide the listings, but look at the response they received in regards to housing in 4.1. They knew within a day or two and announced they have a fix in mind, but it'll be 3.5-4 months later. Fingers crossed the pf will get an update in 4.2.

[akaneakki]

There2.

I can know it can be annoying etc. On my old server where we also sold content and still do with them through my alt when people across server ask us, we tell them we won't do it and usually the guy who does put up the pf, doesn't care if its through world or server, however if I do use the PF I make sure it's only world

[akaneakki]

Thoughts?

You have no proof people buy with RMT gil through PF and you also have to know most just put the PF up without cling that one button, yes I know it take less than 5 seconds. But that happens to me too. I honestly refuse to take money from people from other servers as well.

[HaelseMikiro]

GM: "I feel that I have everything I need to begin my investigation. Before I take my leave is there anything else that I may be able to assist you with today?"
I ask if they can request the advertisers to uncheck the option that has the listings being shown across the data center.
GM: "No I can not"
GM: "Players are allowed to do this and it would be interruption of their game play if I were to make them stop."
Me: Even though it's across the data center? (paraphrased)
GM: "That's correct."

This is probably the unfortunate answer to it. Being nice and not interrupting 1 persons game play by asking them to change a PF listing > dealing with possibly several player complaints about it. There could be a PF listing about limp sexual organs and the GM would say "I have what I need to move this investigation..." and then allow the PF to run out it's entire allotted time of anadditional 40 minutes. I only use that as an example because it's actually happened. Whether it's apathy, SE policy, or simply the GMs not having enough tools, only they can say.

Of course we as players are absolutely allowed to interrupt each others game play by asking for PF details to be changed