Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Dualgunner]

Sorry to turn this into another BLM comparison

My comment was about Black Mage as well, in response to Galvuu's comment here:

*insert rant about how I believe BLM should be balanced to be a powerhouse in speedkilling/farming and not progressing because its playstyle inherently requires very deep knowledge of the fight that's non-conducive of optimal progression and counter-intuitive while you're learning a fight*

[Llugen]

I mean, I certainly don't think ANY class should be "counter-intuitive" at ANY time really (and I get the feeling the devs would agree with me), let alone during progression.


The whole point is that I don't want to have to play RDM (read: be bullied into playing it, be shamed for NOT playing it, be excluded from groups that specifically want only RDM, even feel guilty myself because I know I'd be "better optimized" for doing it) for progression and then be able to switch to BLM only after, and RDMs don't want to have to switch to BLM after progression because they enjoy their job. BLM doesn't need to be THE BEST class for progression like Rez Dispenser (tm), it just needs to be better than it is right now, and I think pretty much everyone would agree with that. Enter properly-implemented combat raise (and probably at least a half dozen other buffs, but I digress).

[Remedi]

Sorry but your idea of a 3 min CD raise OGCD is essentially useless, it's essentially not on par with other sources in any way other than beign an ability and not a spell so you could use it if somehow everyone is silenced I guess, the only thing it does is giving an option that serves nothing and opens the flood gates for other jobs to have it.

I still insist if a safety net is so request to the point of ppl bullyuiing other for not playing RDM during prog, that means that it has overstaying is welcome and should be nerfed, as I said there are better ways to make a class more worthy for prog and SE can do it. As things stands now RDM have no identity in the game outside beign the guy who remains out of combat in molten core raising the group

[Llugen]

...It is supposed to be an ability. Otherwise there would be downtime and rotation interruption. That's the whole point.

And I fully disagree, it changes a lot. The ability to raise a healer who died vs basically requiring a wipe is a huge difference. The long recast is to prevent spamming it which is exactly what we don't want, and it gives a "spread" along the role to avoid homogenization.

And, one more time, dying is GOING to happen in progression. Give the job a Raise and further overtune Weakness/Brink, if you think it's "too risky" to have as a tool. Quite frankly I used to hate the days (and still do when I actually play BLM anymore) where the healer dies and there is no choice but to wipe. We don't want to have to wipe upon death, that doesn't somehow make the game more enjoyable, if anything more tedious. It can be pretty impressive to say "we recovered this with 4 deaths".

[Remedi]

I suppose we have to agree to disagree on this point.
I personally don't see a problem in the situation you describe, in my opinion each time that event happens it should incite the group to do better even trough sheer tediousness just because if that happens you are letting down the team.
My fear is that if chain ressing stays as it is it might force SE to make so that every mechanic comes with an instant wipe solution if handled wrongly, just because how ppl perceives the usefulness of that (and in the past they have shown to do this to counter unintended startegy, who remembers the 360° devour in savage second coil?)

I still insist that the ability you speak about doesn't change much really, it gives the possibility yes, but not much else, the other sources are just better by a long much and frankly as I said if SE caves to this EVERY job will want it.

[Shiroe]

Noooo rez for blm please..., dont make it a another cross class skill blm need (bye bye swiftcast, blm need so desperately) and dont make smn and rdm lose a part of their identity

there are so many other ways to make blm desirable again / to fix blm, ... rez is not one if them

[Llugen]

...and frankly as I said if SE caves to this EVERY job will want it.

No, every CASTER will want it. Which is exactly what adding this will achieve. The caster role is able to raise. Except BLM. Which is exactly the problem.



Also note another person who did not read the thread above.

[Kurando]

Unless BLM is to be given double time on it's Astral/Umbral statuses then giving them a rez will be a major detriment to their DPS, and even then the party must be doing something wrong if the healer can't do the rezzing. Honestly rez shouldn't be required for any content, even one of the savage metas BRD-MNK-MCH-NIN were able to clear content WITHOUT a caster using rez (bar the healers).

Give BLM more damage and/or utility (not rez) to bring them on par with other casters and be done with it. This thread needs to end already.

[Remedi]

Can you be sure that it'll stop to just casters? You yourself said that PLD should get one and eventually all the tanks to balance them then, what? all the melee dps/ranged physical too?

[Llugen]

You're really grasping for straws here. "Because I want it" is not my reasoning in the least.

My reasoning is that the role is unbalanced WAY out of BLM's favor and that needs to be changed, and part of that can and probably should include the ability to raise. No melee or ranged DPS roles have raise nor should they need them. Perhaps BRD might have seen it in 2.0 if they continued in the "support" direction (note the old LB3), but not anymore. Meanwhile, two of the three caster roles have the ability on a spectrum, and one does not at all. I don't see how you can think this is balanced for the role.

PLD could meaningfully have it and then by extension the other tanks too with some creative license (however it would ALSO be acceptable for ONLY PLD to have it, it would NOT be acceptable for only PLD and DRK to have it, but NOT WAR. See how this works?), but if you're seriously trying to tell me that DRG will cry for raise and then complain when they don't get it because it makes absolutely no sense for their class nor for their role, then I don't even know what to say to you.



Note another person that did not read the thread above.