I miss the old PvP.

[RiyahArp]

What's sad is that we totally had that before, but people claimed it was too hard to learn, had "too many buttons", and generally didn't try it besides

You pretty much did a modified form of pve opener in it, in a much shorter timeframe, hoping to god the other team wasn't using callouts to stun you and waste the entire burst. I kind of wonder about you sometimes, because you can say it was better, but anyone who says HW pvp was easy is so mistaken it's not funny. I understand you are positive by nature, but Feast in HW was ridiculous for many jobs. I placed my first season and did a ton of 8v8 because I was sick of ranked after, and nothing about it was easy.

[Hyrist]

Some people are arguing about the strength of healers - I figured I'd talk about the choices in mind here.


Basicly, there are three core tenants to handle healer balancing in games. Keep in mind, these are gross generalizations for sake of simplification and quick conversation.

1. The healer is powerful enough to handle a team healing load unless the enemy co-ordinates. This is the system we have now.

2. The healer cannot sufficiently heal the party against are serve more as a 'support' role, given various methods of assisting the enemy fight. This is the system we see in most MOBAs.

3. Individual player health pools are much larger compared to the damage an invidual can deal, but the healer cannot easily outpace the tools given by a player if sufficiently used.


Now, there is a graduation between all of these, but I'm going to adjust the core points in their extremes to point out the balancing flaws.

As people have done complaints about number one, let's talk about the most popular first. Number 2 - a healer simply cannot keep up with the damage. While this is great for team tactical play seen in popular games in League of Legends, is boasts a slower, more methodical approach. For situations like the Feast where it is team 4 on 4. Fights will simply collapse quickly into one-sided victories upon the first death. This promotes passive play, waiting for players to make a single positional or skill error, and capitalizing on it. And to be honest, it's not all that fun for an MMO environment where most of the game outside PvP is based off of regular attacks. However in this system, a smaller number of skills becomes more efficient and easier to understand and get into.

Number three seems great on paper - Healer can't keep up if all the tools are properly utilized, but that takes a lot of skill. This is very similar to the one we had. The problem here every fight becomes a war of attrition, whittling an enemy down to outpace the healing - it takes forever to get a kill. This system is greater for objective based play where it's not the enemies you're aiming for, it's something else. However of late, and for good reason, this system has found itself in less and less practice.

What SE chose is a variation of number 1, with the skillset of number 2 - and it's coming with some growing pains. The thing is, it strikes a balance between stagnation and pacification - this is most assured by the gaming systems that are in place. The Culling in Feast insures that if healers get too skilled, they're gradually made weaker in comparison to the damage until a kill is made.

In Rival Wings, the balancing fact against healers is the Mechs. While holding the center with healers is possible, it does not monopolize the flow EP, as there are collection points and enemy minions that provide it as well. The more healers involved holding the center, the less people are out collecting or killing minions, and they'll lose flow that way. Outside the center, the healers are vulnerable to the machines themselves. A a tank and a mech is more than enough for a healer. And a Brute Justice with multiple stacks will kill a healer outright with flamethrower.

So no, healers are not OP. They're more powerful the lesser skilled the opponents are.

There are definite improvements to be had with the current system, and balancing is a pain. But the more people learn the system and how to best play it, the more balanced combat becomes.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You pretty much did a modified form of pve opener in it, in a much shorter timeframe, hoping to god the other team wasn't using callouts to stun you and waste the entire burst. I kind of wonder about you sometimes, because you can say it was better, but anyone who says HW pvp was easy is so mistaken it's not funny. I understand you are positive by nature, but Feast in HW was ridiculous for many jobs. I placed my first season and did a ton of 8v8 because I was sick of ranked after, and nothing about it was easy.

Easy to learn. What you do with it or how far you can make it is the challenge, and some will naturally take to it quicker than others.

And speaking only for MCHs, our burst was definitely not a PvE opener. It was essentially 4 skills, all oGCDs, which irritates me that only one part of that survives in 4.x PvP, and has been nerfed significantly besides.

[Tos00]

I miss annoying people by removing their buffs with one ilm punch aswell as the stuns from Shoulder Tackle and Steel Peak.

Or that one MRD cross class skills that upped defense or using fetter ward.

[Sunako]

I miss old seal rock days. Would not say it was balanced, but was really fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4xeBsLJQ8

[Istaru]

I miss old seal rock days. Would not say it was balanced, but was really fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4xeBsLJQ8

Seal Rock was my favorite. Yes, I miss the old PVP without EXP and with all of our skills. very, very much.

[Ryannex]

As much as I was SO happy to see square put in the effort to completely rework PVP, and I enjoy the new healing mechanics -- dps has suffered greatly. As someone who mained a dps in the past, the new system just makes me feel like I'm tickling the opponent instead of bursting.

I can only hope that they will continue to ADD to the current skills, until it gets to a similar version as our previous one but, perhaps, more balanced. (Although the previous one was definitely more balanced as any job was pretty much viable.)

[SummerScorcher]

I was watching one of my old pvp videos, aaand as petty as it sounds, my heart sinks at the thought of never being able to play it again lol. It was so much fun, I remember leveling war and many other jobs to 60 just so I could play it in PVP, getting very good at DRK, and more. I wore the PvP crown with pride because I knew what I was doing and gladly helped others get better. While I loved the PvE content as well, in a way you could say old pvp was my endgame I guess. It's like SE deleted 50% of the game for me.

[Wintersandman]

I was watching one of my old pvp videos, aaand as petty as it sounds, my heart sinks at the thought of never being able to play it again lol. It was so much fun, I remember leveling war and many other jobs to 60 just so I could play it in PVP, getting very good at DRK, and more. I wore the PvP crown with pride because I knew what I was doing and gladly helped others get better. While I loved the PvE content as well, in a way you could say old pvp was my endgame I guess. It's like SE deleted 50% of the game for me.

Oh I remember those times and PvP became my end game as well since I didn't do Ex runs or Savage.

[SummerScorcher]

Here's an idea SE: An option in the PvP profile and Duty Finder to swap to "legacy mode" where you get your whole PvE kit/hotbar + legacy PvP skills back. I see 0 reasons for this not to work, at the very least change to this for duels.

Queuing for Frontline/other pvp mode with this enabled would either
A) Put you in a seperate queue with other people who have this enabled (prefered for ranked)
Or B) Put you in the same queue as everyone else, but you deal lower damage to compensate for the amount of skills you are able to use. (with this debuff you would still be at an advantage if you play well, however.)

Yes or no guys? I vote yes. ;]