Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Grimoire-M]

If BLM got a raise it should be self-only and usable while dead. Make it res them to full HP/MP in AF3 and leave a debuff that overwrites Enochian and has the same effects, except it kills them if they drop it. Simple as that. That's enough utility and there are mechanics where people would use that in prog (O4S Double Attack comes to mind, also T13 had a similar situation when solo-tanking with Akh Morn).

BLM can get utility, but it has to be selfish and/or dps oriented. Or SE has to make CC debuffs usable.

[Komaru_Tatoro]

i like it, cause its selfish

[Llugen]

You don't want to have to raise, but sometimes you need to. Parties aren't set up with the idea that you "need" to raise, but as mentioned before it is much better to have the ability and not need it than need the ability and not have it.

BLM doesn't need to be a rez dispenser, it JUST needs to have an option. Honestly I don't know how much more simply it can be put. The other two caster roles have it, all the healers have it (note: every single DoM except BLM/THM have it). Even a self-only raise would be better than having nothing. I also like the "necromancy" idea from before which would exactly "suit the playstyle" of pure power caster.



I apologize for being "unnecessarily snarky", it's just amazing to me that people can't seem to take a step back, understand/analyze the dilemma, and think outside the box. It's incredible how quickly everyone just jumps to the same conclusion that it MUST work the way the other casters do so therefore it must be a bad idea. Work with me, here.

LITERALLY NO ONE wants BLM to dispense infinite raises. It JUST needs to have an option to compete for that caster slot (which currently doesn't even exist, soooo yep).

[PrismaticDaybreak]

You managed to be snarky in an apology for being snarky, perfect 5/7. There isn't a point in bringing up the whole Disciple of Magic thing since half of them are healers, what healer in any game doesn't have a raise? Now imagine that Black Mage gets all the fixes people want so that it is competitive and then also gets a raise. It's overkill. Plus the other guy was right, it's a DPS loss even oGCD because you need an instant cast to make use of them, of which BLM has one non proc based.

Consider that people understand what you're saying, but they disagree with you.

[Cynfael]

You don't want to have to raise, but sometimes you need to. Parties aren't set up with the idea that you "need" to raise, but as mentioned before it is much better to have the ability and not need it than need the ability and not have it.

BLM doesn't need to be a rez dispenser, it JUST needs to have an option. Honestly I don't know how much more simply it can be put. The other two caster roles have it, all the healers have it (note: every single DoM except BLM/THM have it). Even a self-only raise would be better than having nothing. I also like the "necromancy" idea from before which would exactly "suit the playstyle" of pure power caster.



I apologize for being "unnecessarily snarky", it's just amazing to me that people can't seem to take a step back, understand/analyze the dilemma, and think outside the box. It's incredible how quickly everyone just jumps to the same conclusion that it MUST work the way the other casters do so therefore it must be a bad idea. Work with me, here.

LITERALLY NO ONE wants BLM to dispense infinite raises. It JUST needs to have an option to compete for that caster slot (which currently doesn't even exist, soooo yep).

As someone who on many occasions has had to paraphrase, summarize, elaborate, and just plain reiterate points for pages on end (see almost any thread concerning healer DPS) when other posters appear to disregard or misunderstand what I feel are extremely clear and sensible explanations, I'm not entirely unsympathetic.

On the other hand, sometimes it's simply the case that someone else actually did read and understand what you were suggesting and still disagrees. I can't speak for supaiku, but while I understand the argument for giving BLM some kind of rez as well as some options for making it somewhat distinctive, I just prefer that BLM not join the housekeeping crew. In fact, I'd be thrilled if the next couple of DoM DPS Jobs offered no resurrection whatsoever. I have a hard time believing that SE can't find ways to make magical DPS desirable without letting it function as a crutch.

[Silver-Strider]

Make sleep into a magic vuln debuff
Have Scathe scale with Astral/Umbral stacks so that it does ~300 potency (just spitballing a number) at 3 stacks so it can do some damage on the move.
Freeze gets a trait that makes it an instant cast after Flare and grants Umbral hearts.

[Llugen]

I wouldn't even necessarily call raise a crutch. It's an ability that other jobs have to attempt recovery that BLM doesn't. Particularly where progression is concerned, this is the opposite of a crutch but rather exactly what you want.

All other BLM suggestions are well and good, please feel free to post them in the other megathread. This one is simply for debate about BLM getting raise or the other casters losing it. And once again, with the right implementation, it would hardly be joining "the housekeeping crew".

[Maero]

I am just very surprised that anyone who mains blm would want a raise ability...
We need more damage, that is all. Other jobs have utility

[Cynfael]

I wouldn't even necessarily call raise a crutch. It's an ability that other jobs have to attempt recovery that BLM doesn't. Particularly where progression is concerned, this is the opposite of a crutch but rather exactly what you want.

All other BLM suggestions are well and good, please feel free to post them in the other megathread. This one is simply for debate about BLM getting raise or the other casters losing it. And once again, with the right implementation, it would hardly be joining "the housekeeping crew".

Resurrection is, by definition, a crutch. This is not a semantics point that I imagined we would be debating.

[Kabooa]

On the other hand, sometimes it's simply the case that someone else actually did read and understand what you were suggesting and still disagrees. I can't speak for supaiku, but while I understand the argument for giving BLM some kind of rez as well as some options for making it somewhat distinctive, I just prefer that BLM not join the housekeeping crew. In fact, I'd be thrilled if the next couple of DoM DPS Jobs offered no resurrection whatsoever. I have a hard time believing that SE can't find ways to make magical DPS desirable without letting it function as a crutch.

My concern regarding being raiseless is that Red Mage highlighted a concerning possibility. If every Caster class is going to get a raise from now on, Black Mage not having access to its own variant is honestly pretty dumb.

I'm in favor of simply removing it from the caster role altogether, though I'm also in favor in rearranging much of the toolbox each role / job gets.