Is EX/Savage content a battle or a dance number?

[Xerek]

Some differences for sure... but whether I am a Scholar or a Bard won't change "Boss does lookaway mechanic every 60 seconds." or "Boss does a targeted aoe mechanic every 90 seconds." or "Must clump up every 120 seconds." etc. If the difficulty is designed entirely (or mostly) around memorization of when to turn, when to stack, when to spread, when to whatever...that is not for me. Any/All games have it to an extent (and is, or should be, completely expected), but for me it is too much in this game. If they were less frequent and difficulty came not from memorization but rather from adaptation and straight raw healing then that would be more appealing for me.

Again current design is not bad or wrong, just not something I enjoy and not something I am likely to enjoy. There are many things in this game that I love though, so I just focus on the different things I love here, and scratch my raiding itch in WoW

This.

I'm not talking the parts about where I need to be ready to handle tankbusters, or burst heal people to full. I'm talking the...well...all the mechanics Aramina described, and ones I mentioned in my OP. In O2S, I go up for Gravitational Manipulation. I'd go up as a tank, down for DPS. For -100 G, I go N as tank/healer, a diagonal as DPS. For tentacles I go to my assigned spot the first and third time as tank/healer, second time as DPS. Same with the bouncing ball, I float and sit on my point the first and third time as tank/healer, second as DPS. But...it's still the same. And that's what I refer to when I mention the dance. I don't mean the parts that need to be addressed by class skills, I mean the arbitrary "stand in a certain spot", "look away", "slide one way/slide another way" that have nothing to do with my class abilities. Those are the veggies on my plate and in Savage there are far too many of them for my tastes. And that's what it boils down to, my tastes. Changing roles will not change the mechanics that have nothing to do with role, or specifically the overabundance of them.

Honestly, Aramina summed up what I was trying to say perfectly.

[Aramina]

That's totally fine. I am not trying to argue you into doing the content if you don't like it. I am simply encouraging and suggesting that people try foods cooked in a lot of different ways before giving up on said food. If I had based my opinion of cauliflower on the one time my mother served it to me cooked and refused to try it any other way I would have never found out how much I love it uncooked.

That's cool Like I said I am not necessarily disagreeing with you.... but I have the option of doing things I *know* I like in this game and doing other things I *know* I like in other games. It's not so much being unwilling to try, but more if I can do crafting here that I love, and raiding on WoW that I love... I don't feel inspired to take a leap so to speak... well aside from the obvious of it would be cheaper if I could be entirely happy playing one game. :P

[Xerek]

And for the record, I have tried O1S as a paladin in the past. It played out exactly as I expected. All of the mechanics that had nothing to do with class felt exactly the same, and anything having to do with class were rougher because I'm a better healer then tank. Changing roles has no impact whatsoever on mechanics that are not dependent on class abilities. It still felt like far too much time dancing to arbitrary mechanics then time spent doing my job. I can't see DPS being any different.

[Dyvid]

So wait, I'm confused. Are you trying to tell me a video game is nothing more than a pattern based AI? That's as insane as saying it's built on some kind of computer code.

[Casanters]

Raiding in MMOs tends to just be a script loop, and that's why I don't do it anymore. You're just repeating the same crap ad nauseam and it's not really any compelling kind of challenge. Raiders like to puff themselves up feeling good about downing it, though. Grats, you've reduced yourself to the level of a trained monkey for the benefit of marginal stat upgrades on a digital pair of pants.

[Sunhwapark]

I mean the arbitrary "stand in a certain spot", "look away", "slide one way/slide another way" that have nothing to do with my class abilities..

Tbh, i think they are rookie traps and to ones surprise, they do keep people from O3/4S.
I think you should definitely give O3/4S a go at the very least. O3 doesn't have much random aspects outside of;

• Random Mindjack
• Random Spellblade Holy Markers
• Random Queen's Waltz Tile (Last Phase)

But even those keep some people on their toes, and can catch people off guard a lot of the time if they weren't paying attention, like how someone mentioned earlier about pug parties often struggling to get past the first few mechanics Halicarnassus throws out at players. I'd honestly give O3/4S a few tries before writing off the entire section of savage based upon the first 2, like others have said - the first 2 floors are pretty awful, and really - really simple, they pretty much just removed the safety barrier from O1S and that was it, yet people seem to slide off and kill themselves as much as they are hit by car-clamp somehow. "savage" >_>

I don't really want to parrot anything i've already mentioned, but i just want to say that at your gear level, O1/2S will not push you much to use your classes abilities at all. you can expect it all you want, but the reality is that you can pretty much do the 45% effort thing and still get by for the most part. They are so irrelevant now difficulty wise, that double jobs (even healers) can get by with ease.

What do you think should be done to make raids "more challenging" without the RNG aspect, i mean i'd probably be more frustrated at RNG if i had to deal with Almagest 3X in a row back to back. And also, if one was to... you know remove "mechanics", would anything take its place or would we just have 4 different looking sandbag bosses?

[Yeol]

Yes all encounters are scripted. Maybe you find O1S and O2S less enjoyable because the only random mechanic you deal with is finding the safe spot.
O3S and O4S require more than just finding a safe spot. There are more random elements to deal with and hard hitting mechanics.

Maybe give O3S/O4S a go and see if you enjoy that level of difficulty more.

[LeeraSorlan]

I know people already said it but majority of all savage tiers start with an easy 1 and 2 which are dances but becomes savage at 3 and 4

But then again in my opinion savage hasn't been savage since A4s-8s....Gordias was just stupid on the devs part and A3s was almost impossible for most people and A4s had a mechanic that relied on server lag lol, creator just wasn't hard for people they flew through it quick and well this tier isnt hard either I pugged my way to a clear for 1-3s in the first week and 4s on my fourth becuase people suck lol

A4S did NOT have a mechanic that relied on server lag.
A4S had a mechanic that was able to be cheesed threw the use of the developers lack of insight into the game structure.
Saccing yourself is not the way the mechanic was ever meant to be done.


Also i think A3S was one of the only few good fights in the entire alexander raid, id welcome more fights like that.

[HyoMinPark]

And for the record, I have tried O1S as a paladin in the past. It played out exactly as I expected. All of the mechanics that had nothing to do with class felt exactly the same, and anything having to do with class were rougher because I'm a better healer then tank. Changing roles has no impact whatsoever on mechanics that are not dependent on class abilities. It still felt like far too much time dancing to arbitrary mechanics then time spent doing my job. I can't see DPS being any different.

Again, though, you’re talking about V1S. Which has very little reason to refer to itself as Savage content.
Try out V3S or V4S. They’re the actual Savage content this tier.

[Xerek]

Again, though, you’re talking about V1S. Which has very little reason to refer to itself as Savage content.
Try out V3S or V4S. They’re the actual Savage content this tier.

They have fewer mechanics then O1S and O2S and feel less like a dance, allowing more time to actually fight the fight? Because if nothing else, the guides I watched and read on O3S suggest there are more arbitrary, non-combat related mechanics to it, not less.