Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

[PArcher]

DPS check + Avoid the fire check =/= Hard content.

The only "difficult" part of raids is dealing with the ego/elitism, that is why most people don't do it. Plus they know that in a few months the next ilvl gear will come out making all the time wasted in raids just that, wasted time.

Don't think that your wasted time is any better than another persons wasted time. You are just wasting your time...

If raiding is so easy, why haven't you done any?

Elitism will kill raiding dead someday and those raiders who also happen to be scumbag elitists will only have themselves to blame for why MMO companies gave up on raiding
and decided to cater only to the easier to please crowd (some of the casuals who don't bother)

Welcome to low-to-mid tier raiding. Where everyone thinks they're the best even when they can barely execute a basic rotation properly. Its really funny how everyone thinks the top-tier raiders are elitists when they're not, they just want to have content to challenge them. Its those who think they're good that have the egos, and want things catered to them (see all the people who can't clear O4S but want to run Ultimate. Those are your elitists. Just like the vast majority of Mentors...)

[basketofseals]

DPS check + Avoid the fire check =/= Hard content.

The only "difficult" part of raids is dealing with the ego/elitism, that is why most people don't do it. Plus they know that in a few months the next ilvl gear will come out making all the time wasted in raids just that, wasted time.

Don't think that your wasted time is any better than another persons wasted time. You are just wasting your time...

Yeah man, it only took two weeks to down Unending Coil and and entire month to down Gordias because people just couldn't be nice to each other.

[HoodRat]

Yeah man, it only took two weeks to down Unending Coil and and entire month to download Gordias because people just couldn't be nice to each other.

Being nice: the true endgame.

[DGladius]

Relics should be a tier below savage raid weapons and that doesn't mean relic weapons will be crap.

Also, what's killing raiding for me is NA pugs not coming to hard group content prepared and determined to learn/do mechanics properly let alone DPS doing appropriate DPS and cry how they don't want their performance measured and held accountable to it.

[PArcher]

Relics should be a tier below savage raid weapons and that doesn't mean relic weapons will be crap.

Also, what's killing raiding for me is NA pugs not coming to hard group content prepared and determined to learn/do mechanics properly let alone DPS doing appropriate DPS and cry how they don't want their performance measured and held accountable to it.

Again, this is the low-to-mid tier "raiders" causing problems; the most casual people attempting the content...

It always feels really bad to be out-dpsing geared DPS as a tank. Especially SAM and BLM, who's only job is to...DPS.

[Sylvina]

Again, this is the low-to-mid tier "raiders" causing problems; the most casual people attempting the content...

It always feels really bad to be out-dpsing geared DPS as a tank. Especially SAM and BLM, who's only job is to...DPS.

I'm in a group of no pressure cool people who can raid without salt and we consider ourselves casual. Our goal is still Unending Coil, and we will get there in time.

I think there are toxic asshats in all tiers of raiding. hardcore and casual. it's just the nature of humanity. there are jerks of all kinds.

[Lilseph]

Nope, no reason to. In my opinion.

DPS check + Avoid the fire check =/= Hard content.

The only "difficult" part of raids is dealing with the ego/elitism, that is why most people don't do it. Plus they know that in a few months the next ilvl gear will come out making all the time wasted in raids just that, wasted time.

Don't think that your wasted time is any better than another persons wasted time. You are just wasting your time...

Wrong, the hardest part of raiding is trying to get everyone in a fixed schedule for progression/clears/optimization. Pugging doesn't bring the same quality unless you luckily gather like-minded individuals looking for something to do in between weekly resets. Also, allow me to point this out but THE WHOLE GAME IS A WASTE OF TIME. It's a GAME. Unless you're getting irl money out of it, it's a waste of time. It's a space for recreation. So, let me kick that out of the way for now.

However, I'm taking you don't raid, hence the oversimplification and the thought it's similar to any expert dungeon.

You guys are also exaggerating the amount of elitism around raiding. Maybe there's a vocal minority that give them a bad image, but overall, they are simple players like everyone else. Just different motivation for a different type of content.

[Sylvina]

My motivation for raiding is that I like all content, and I RP as well. I do everything a game has to offer when avaliable, I just do some more than others.

[F_Maximillian]

I've pugged this entire tier as well as all of creator and a bit of gordias/midas (groups were hard to find on my server prior to x server pf) and I've yet to see this rampant elitism people speak of. I've seen a few occasional jerks but I've seen more under performing players calling those trying to help them elitists than actual elitists themselves. What do you even define as elitist? I mean most groups have standards of some kind but that's a far cry from being "elitist".

As far as relics go they're a grind and a half sure and they take a long time to do but I think raid weapons should still be slightly better than relics. For starters, if you aren't raiding then why do you need a very best in slot weapon? You don't even need one to raid..

[Sylvina]

It's not a matter of whether you need the gear or not that's irrelevant, you dont NEED to be playing the game at all.

People want the best gear they can get for their character because people enjoy improving their character. that is the motivation for getting gear. not necessity for sure.

The relic should at least be equal when finished to raid weapons. doesn't have to be better but it needs to be on the same level or why bother?