How can tanking and healing be made more broadly useful in more "role-specific" ways?

[Reynhart]

This is starting to get ridiculous. None of Kikix's suggestions have required anything on the scope your suggesting. It is as simple as changing an Objective line from "Kill Alta Roite" to "Defend Fluffles" or "Survive Villainous III's Attacks" and adding a time limit and failure condition as already present in our FATEs.

You keep going back and forth...if you say "just survive", I say "then DPS are useless", then you say "but we need to kill too so we won't be overwhelmed", and we're back to "dead monsters don't do damage, so you will survive". Please make up your mind.

The examples being referred to are right up there, between your quotes, and on the previous page, and none of them require a complete overhaul of -- or even the slightest change to -- DPS jobs to maintain their purpose while still allowing for the same variation in objectives in Trials or Raids that we already see in FATEs, or across other MMO's raid encounters. Zero. None.

And none of them change the fact that you will win by killing ennemies, unless ennemies can't be killed, making DPS useless.

The sad part is that one Kikix example has already been done in A12, and it didn't change anything to DPSing...

[Deathgiver]

The sad part is that one Kikix example has already been done in A12, and it didn't change anything to DPSing...

Which mechanic in a12 are you referring too? Both your posts are so full of quotes and rhetoric that I can't find what you're referring to

[Reynhart]

Which mechanic in a12 are you referring too? Both your posts are so full of quotes and rhetoric that I can't find what you're referring to

The part where the four DPS goes into portals and are separated from tanks and healers...while tanks and healers still do what damage they can on Alexander.

[Ultimatecalibur]

And none of them change the fact that you will win by killing ennemies, unless ennemies can't be killed, making DPS useless.

The objective isn't to make DpS and killing enemies useless but more to make "ability to survive" and "ability to keep others alive" more important for tanks and healers respectively.

Imagine a 10 minute add wave fight that you win if the party survives through the full 10 minutes and that dealing good dps will make the fight easier but not win it.

Which mechanic in a12 are you referring too? Both your posts are so full of quotes and rhetoric that I can't find what you're referring to

I'm pretty certain Reynhart is referring to the 2nd of A12S' add phases (the one where half the party leaves to kill adds while the rest of the party is focused on placing crystals for the next phase).

The part where the four DPS goes into portals and are separated from tanks and healers...while tanks and healers still do what damage they can on Alexander.

The Savage version of that section does much better to illustrate what this thread is trying to ask for.

2 of the adds are fairly easily dpsed down.
1 of the adds hits very hard and slowly and either needs to be tanked or quick killed with an lb.
1 of the adds doesn't hit hard but attacks quickly and needs a healer to heal through it until the rest of the party doing adds kills their adds and comes to kill the healer's.

Meanwhile the rest of the party outside with Alexander Prime are more focused on trying to survive and properly place the crystals.