Teleport System

[Rentahamster]

However, say you are in Gridania and need to get to a camp in Ul'dah. You can either teleport to either the closest camp to the zone line (in Gridania -> Ul'dah's case, Camp Drybone?), or directly into the city itself. Then you can teleport to your destination camp.

The same goal would be achieved by just making long distance teleports cost more anima.

Straw man arguments do nothing to help your position. If you apply this same line of thinking to everything in the game, in the end you'll have a nice approximation of WoW.

If your playtime is THAT limited, MMORPGs probably aren't the genre for you. And I say this as a college student working two jobs.

"Straw man" arguments? I think you are confused on what the definition of a "straw man" is. I am not misrepresenting Mega's arguments. All I am doing is listing reasons as to why removing teleportation doesn't add anything worthwhile to the gameplay. The more choices a player has regarding transportation, the better.

Why shouldn't MMORPGs be able to cater to casual players with limited gametime? If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

There is always going to be a solution that helps out both types of players, or at least a compromise that has more positives than negatives.

[Dreamer]

"Straw man" arguments? I think you are confused on what the definition of a "straw man" is. I am not misrepresenting Mega's arguments. All I am doing is listing reasons as to why removing teleportation doesn't add anything worthwhile to the gameplay. The more choices a player has regarding transportation, the better.

You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.

Why shouldn't MMORPGs be able to cater to casual players with limited gametime? If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

There is always going to be a solution that helps out both types of players, or at least a compromise that has more positives than negatives.

Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

[darkstarpoet1]

You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.



Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

actually the statement she made directly refuted the argument he made. his response was that casual players or people that only play a little time during the week would not be affected by the removal completely of teleporting because they do not have much time to play. he stated that an 8 minute airship ride would not break into their time. renta pointed out that short 8 minute air ride, while it would not impact us, would impact the casual players by taking away 10% of their playing time and take away that percentage of the playing time. that is in no way a straw man argument.

second, i do not see how if a single game mechanic does not affect your game it waters down the game experience. the ones that play alot take advantage of the teleport system in place now and would continue to do so on certain circumstances. i know for one, i would not wait for 30-45 minutes for someone to run to the airship then fly over to the location we are waiting to start fighting a nm in. those are on a timer and either you engage em before the timer runs out or you lose the chance to fight it.

[Rentahamster]

You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.

It's not a straw man, nor is it even "close enough".

Mega made a statement:

If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?

He specifically asked, "what's wrong with an 8 minute airship ride". As in, "Please, I would like some feedback as to any possible negative consequences to an 8 minute airship ride".

What I did was simple. It's called, "I answered his question".

I gave specific examples why 8 minutes is not a trivial amount of time to a certain segment of players with specific goals in mind.

This is what people do in a reasonable debate.

Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

Last time I checked FF14 (the game we are talking about) is doing horribly. Telling players to play another game is not the path to a successful game. The goal is to tell players to play OUR game.

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Let me quote myself again.

If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

In other words, If I can implement a gameplay mechanic that increases the enjoyment and playability for casuals that does not in any way affect the difficulty or enjoyment of this game for hardcore players, why shouldn't I do it? If there is no risk of "watering down" the experience, that means it's a good idea. I am of the opinion that there are many solutions available to us that can keep the basic elements of the game friendly to casuals while still giving more hardcore players a tough challenge should they choose to follow that path.

Making this game overly solo friendly is KILLING the adventure aspect, the teamplay aspect and most of all, the level of difficulty / time put into content. These NM's we have are a damned joke. MMO's aren't FOR casual players. You want casual buy a 360 and play FFXIII.

I sympathize with your sentiment (I am a hardcore player myself), but if we want SquareEnix to have a successful product, we can't just restrict the game to just a narrow population of gamers.

Like I said earlier, the ideal solution would be to implement a solution that gives net benefits to both the casual and hardcore niches. This is not a zero-sum situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum) where anything that benefits casual players is going to always negatively effect hardcore players equally.