Suggestions for bringing DRK up to par, and QoL changes.

[whiskeybravo]

Just check FF logs. War is, most often, the tank that takes the least damage

Come Aana, it's obviously because they are the best defensive tank

Ironically my dps went up when I started MT'ing v1s. Could be due to other things but I thought it was interesting.

I just want to throw out my *at minimum* suggestions for DRK, and then I need to peace out of the convo for a while. Just based on how I felt when playing DRK and general consensus on the forums:

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Living Dead
CD reduction to 180 sec. If they don't otherwise adjust the instant KO aspect of this CD it should be reduced similar to War. I do feel like the ability to move around is better than being rooted, but the instant KO is every bit as dangerous.

Shadow Wall
Increased duration to 15 sec, same 180 sec CD. Possibly tack on a gauge/mp/hp restore effect to assist in overall survivability/damage potential.

Dark Mind
15% DR for 10 sec with 60 sec CD.

TBN
Duration extension. Possibly add a DA effect to power up the shield. Possibly add a 25-50% self heal upon shield break.

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I think those coupled with the possible re-work posted for HW Reprisal would be enough to bring DRK up to par with WAR/PLD. I'm not real sure how I feel about possibly losing reprisal on war/pld, as there's a fine line where it would have the opposite of effect of balancing the tanks. Just my opinion, but all 3 tank comps should have access to/be able to provide baseline raid mitigation. If HW reprisal is too strong it would simply shoehorn us in to pld/drk or war/drk comps and leave pld/war comps undesired. (I'm eyeballing about 15% uptime, anything more than that and I think it would overtake DV/SiO shield combo, which while hard to calculate exactly have about 10% uptime each as far as I can calculate - feel free to correct me here)

I do believe they deserve some synergy with one or both of their old skills. PLD has synergy with Rampart via Intervention, and War has synergy with Awareness via Raw Intuition. Maybe there is a way to give DRK a better reprisal, or as already spelled out, give them the old reprisal back (would create synergy with Anticipation) and introduce a similar effect role skill that couldn't be stacked with Reprisal.

Or maybe I should just prepare to lose Reprisal lol. Not that I particularly care, but it's one of the of the only 2 things I can use as a war to help out my party. Used to be the only thing so I guess I've gotten a bit attached to it. But I think about how we are able to rotate Reprisal and shields on Neo and that would be lost if Reprisal were to become drk exclusive again.

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Another thought I had, and I don't think it's all that feasible but was just trying to think outside the box. Change DRK's damage to blunt and give them a blunt resist down to help improve another oddly undesirable job - monk. I don't know if it would actually be able to work or even if it would be beneficial. Again just an off-the-wall idea I had to change things up

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Another area where DRK seems to be lacking is in a self heal. PLD has clemency, WAR has Equilibrium.. DRK has.. Sole survivor? IDK. Depends if DRK's want a 1-button self heal or something more complicated/engaging in the style of DRK. But they need some help in this regard, as well. (maybe the TBN self-heal would be enough? A 50% heal 4 times a minute would be pretty close to a crit Equilibrium)

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That's all I can really figure. I leave the rest to the experts

[Claire_Pendragon]

Another area where DRK seems to be lacking is in a self heal. PLD has clemency, WAR has Equilibrium.. DRK has.. Sole survivor? IDK. Depends if DRK's want a 1-button self heal or something more complicated/engaging in the style of DRK. But they need some help in this regard, as well. (maybe the TBN self-heal would be enough? A 50% heal 4 times a minute would be pretty close to a crit Equilibrium)

Actually, rethinking on this, a way to "make it more engaging" and a slight fix to sole survivor, is to actually strengthen sole survivor (why not anyways? its not good enough as is) like double the effectiveness of its heal, and maybe 50% more mp on its return.

BUT if you press sole survivor again, it actually cancels the effect, to only give you half the HP portion of it's effect. (or something along those lines)

Or allow it to target PT members too, and Walking Dead triggers the effect of sole survivor.

[whiskeybravo]

Actually, rethinking on this, a way to "make it more engaging" and a slight fix to sole survivor, is to actually strengthen sole survivor (why not anyways? its not good enough as is) like double the effectiveness of its heal, and maybe 50% more mp on its return.

BUT if you press sole survivor again, it actually cancels the effect, to only give you half the HP portion of it's effect. (or something along those lines)

Or allow it to target PT members too, and Walking Dead triggers the effect of sole survivor.

It would help, I think, but the problem is drk can't use it in raid to get the full effect, except perhaps on add phase. It's pretty much an (odd) dungeon ability, and it needs to be more useful or replaced.

An interesting take on walking dead, but again it becomes an ability with a niche use. You wouldn't be able to use for the same things Eq or Clemency are used for.

[Claire_Pendragon]

It would help, I think, but the problem is drk can't use it in raid to get the full effect, except perhaps on add phase. It's pretty much an (odd) dungeon ability, and it needs to be more useful or replaced.

An interesting take on walking dead, but again it becomes an ability with a niche use. You wouldn't be able to use for the same things Eq or Clemency are used for.

Thats why i was saying you could "cancel" the effect, so if the fight is just 1 boss, no adds, pop it when its up, and turn it off imediately. (unless you want the heal to reflect how long its been active, then canceling it at the last second gives the biggest heal)
The act of turning it off, puts it on CD, and heals HP only, comparable to the current amount, maybe less if its based on how long its been on the enemy.

[whiskeybravo]

(unless you want the heal to reflect how long its been active, then canceling it at the last second gives the biggest heal)

That's a decent solution, honestly. I just meant, like, you wouldn't be able to use it for the full effect if it was instant activation for half. But this suggestion would solve that for the most part, although, there's still the minor issue of potency vs need. IE, "I need this heal right away but 25% isn't enough". Which is certainly better than it currently is, but still a bit behind compared to the other tanks options.

[Claire_Pendragon]

That's a decent solution, honestly. I just meant, like, you wouldn't be able to use it for the full effect if it was instant activation for half. But this suggestion would solve that, although, there's still the minor issue of potency vs need. IE, "I need this heal right away but 25% isn't enough"

While not incorrect, Im too casual of a player to think of it that way.
I break it down into priority.

(1) Do I have a WHM to benediction me when I hit Walking dead? If So, go to #2, if not, I save sole survivor for Walking dead.
(2) Is there any adds in this fight, where I need to AoE a lot? If not, go to #3, if so, sole survivor the 1st add to die, to keep my MP going for more AoEs.
(3) Is there an add in the fight I need to tank, while also MTing the boss? If not, go to #4 if so, then I'll probably use sole survivor for the MP, and hope the heal helps. (Otherwise i'd be in the situation ur proposing.)
(4) Its only a boss in this fight. If so, I'll just use it as an emergency heal.

Essentially, I pick based on the fight, rather than in the moment.

[whiskeybravo]

Essentially, I pick based on the fight, rather than in the moment.

Sure, ideally that could all be planned out once you know what you're up against. I guess I'm thinking of it as, I've seen a lot of clutch Eq's and Clemency save the day. It'd be hard to use that version of soul survivor in the same way. Like say you're using it for the MP in situation like 2 or 3 but then get a couple of untimely crits, clipped by an aoe, healer falls asleep, whatever, rip clutch self-heal lol

I do think a combination of that, and tacking a heal on TBN break might be sufficient. In LD you could shield yourself from a bit of damage while the healer starts healing, then it breaks and boosts your HP up on top of the SS. Or in the situations above, pop SS and shield yourself for the extra heal. I think it would put drk in a lot better shape in the self-heal dept.

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

Isn't that kind of double-dipping? Like, you already can't go below one, then the zombie creates an additional HP pool to take hits for you for 10 sec?

Or I guess you'd have to "die" to an auto-attack or something while the TB kills the zombie so the zombie doesn't kill you. Hmm. It's an interesting idea. Would likely be difficult during prog. Or what if there's no auto-attacks like Neo? Seems like mechanics would be spread apart too far for it to work. Except for maybe the quick aero 3 > earthshakers. But maybe not

*edit, yea I'm not sure it would work in neo. If we just look where the invulns are used. The first delta attack you'd have to "die" to aero 3 - but delta attack happens exactly 10 sec later. For the double attack, there's like 7 seconds between antilight and the double attack. Might be enough. The second Delta attack is like 17-sec after antilight, wouldn't work there. The third double attack is 8 seconds after charybdis.. That takes you down to 1 HP, right? Might work there. So that'd be enough I suppose, as long as one tank can get the first and last doubles and the other tank can get the delta attacks. Kinda funny that, if I'm looking at this right, it would pretty much guarantee a spot for war based on this as you couldn't do it with pld/drk.* Sure you didn't intend for that :P

(* - I guess you could still do it the proper way by sharing damage)

No. As I said, the Zombie is an enemy. You (the party) have to kill it before the timer runs out.

Didn't see that coming. DRK would then have the only invuln that reduces raid damage on boss. Granted, 57k is not a lot at current ilevels. Still be pretty odd. I don't approve lol

Zombie punching bag better idea xD

[Aana]

Actually, rethinking on this, a way to "make it more engaging" and a slight fix to sole survivor, is to actually strengthen sole survivor (why not anyways? its not good enough as is) like double the effectiveness of its heal, and maybe 50% more mp on its return.

BUT if you press sole survivor again, it actually cancels the effect, to only give you half the HP portion of it's effect. (or something along those lines)

Or allow it to target PT members too, and Walking Dead triggers the effect of sole survivor.

Sole survivor+walking dead synergy. That's a new one. I kinda like that.

[Reynhart]

Or allow it to target PT members too, and Walking Dead triggers the effect of sole survivor.

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Long time ago, I suggested somes changes to Living Dead.
- Increase its recast to 6 min.
- If your HP reaches 1, you create a Zombie enemy with the same HP as your max HP. If the Zombie is still alive after 10s, it kills you.
- If the Zombie dies while under the effect of Sole Survivor, Living Dead recast is halved.

The obvious weakness to this would be the DPS loss, unless the zombie is taking over threat for you, and attacking the boss with the same amount of DPS you'd be doing.
(if its tanking and dpsing, then the next weakness is that it can potentially add too much dps)

While this may be a bit overly complicated, its technically an improvement when it comes to future tanks, and needing to make invincibles, and not just be copy pasted from what we have now. (as it would free up another "survive at 1hp" styled one. and of course a zombie fits DRK more than another future tank, unless its a pet class, liek BST)