Just want to play black mage, man.

[Remedi]

I'm saying that ppl are blowing the usefulness of chain raise out of proportions, it's good yes, but I wouldn't be too much attached to it

[zuzu-bq]

How are they blowing out of proportions while most here are presenting real cases of progression were that let them push throught somehow? Lots of First week Neo clear groups even have admitted that without Red Mage it would not be downed that fast.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

SE needs to hurry up and get rid of Rez spam. Put that thing on an CD or something. It's just way too valuable and doesn't give any other casters a chance.

[Remedi]

We were talking about ultimate and not NEO which is an extremely recoverable fight, ofc if the fight allows you to die multiple times with no repercussions chain raise is like a god

And that's a problem honestly

edit: What WF group said isn't something I found shocking, the fact that removing the vit drop made raising more powerful is hardly surprising, I do argue that you cannot srsly consider chain raising to carry you trough ultimate bahamut
I said also that in WF prog chain raising has a good use in allowing you to scout a new mechanic because you NEED every once of dvantages over the oither groups, but if you are not going for that and you want to clear a SMN can suffice just as fine as a RDM

[zuzu-bq]

There are also examples where it helps on Ultimate. It just sounds like you never been in there and is just assuming its completly unforgiving.

[Remedi]

Yes there are and there are also moments when you cannot die so what?
Do I need to be clear on every moments on a single fight?


Also please understand that some ppl have taken SMN over RDM stating that they feel like they don't feel the chain ress would change much for them, maybe it did for you and your party and honestly that's ok too

[zuzu-bq]

So does every fight. And you just ignored an example about it on this same thread. I'll not keep this discussion if you refuse to hear others. Your reply just shows you haven't even read what we been telling you.

We're getting off topic too, thread is mostly about how community percieves BLM as inferior. I was recently discussing with some other all casters players and we pretty much agreeded that a bad BLM can sink a party easier than a bad RDM or SMN. You said missing a party buff is a bigger dps loss, not untrue. But akward BLMs on PF will position themselves weirdly and are known for killing others on mechanics that involve many player. I remember hating seeing BLMs joining my Zurvan parties on HW because I simply expected pug BLMs to be bad and not move properly. People are just applying this mentality more and more on top of BLM lacking anything unique.

[Dualgunner]

The problem with a pure DPS DPS, as they're balanced now, is the knowledge that if you're not at the top of the meter, you're suddenly not bringing anything to the group. This is true for SAM and BLM, but it's especially painful for BLM which is outdone in every single instance by Summoner. It definitely needs some strong buffs.

EDIT: As far as RDM's chain rezzing...I'll concede as far as people finding it useful for prog. Some more than others, since not everybody learns fights the same way.

As a personal aside, though, when I got excited for RDM, it was because I was happy there was finally a spellsword archetype job. A true battlemage that weaved its sword in between its spells; what I got was a rez bot. That's my personal beef and bias with chain rezzing.

[Remedi]

So does every fight. And you just ignored an example about it on this same thread. I'll not keep this discussion if you refuse to hear others. Your reply just shows you haven't even read what we been telling you.

I might be ignoring that example and that's my fault, however you are also ignoring that some ppl have found that having a SMN was not impacting their performance as much, in fact my point is that chain ressing while very useful when done right and in the right circumstances does not really carry you to that fight till the end.
In the end dualgunner said it much better than me

Not everybody learns the fight in the same way, which means some might find it more useful than others however I won't agree with ppl saying that without chain ress you are doomed in a fight like that

[zuzu-bq]

I'm not though. Are you even reading what I said many posts ago exactly comparing RDM and SMN strengths and saying you can just swap back and forth to boost progression?

My statements are all about strategies to boost progression and not "without RDM raise you're doomed." My reasoning is: you can boost progression with RDM, same with SMN. Better if you keep swapping depending on current state of the party in the fight in question (any fight). While BLM has no trait to boost progression. This is the second or third time I'm explaining myself to you. The same has been said over and over on Sfia's BLM thread.