Can we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?

[Aster_E]

Hall of the Novice tells the DPS to kill the adds not pick them up and hold aggro. What the actual hell.

I was about to say... The way Tint mentioned it doesn't sound like how I remember it from when I did it on my two alt characters. The thing tells you how to stop more adds from coming and also how to, in general, knock out the adds asap so they don't cause more problems down the line.

[NocturniaUzuki]

To everyone responding to me, I do apologize if that's the impression I gave, since I tend to get exasperated with player mindsets. You are quite right that, assuming it's a random DF queue, it's fair to expect players to be prepared. That being said, it's not trolling to simply be undergeared. If someone's undergeared, I think it's only polite for the party to adapt if it is possible to. And all I'm really saying with regards to the unfortunate Duty Finder situations is that it is, in fact, possible to run the dungeon with a severely undergeared tank, because you don't even need a tank in the first place in most cases.

It's only trolling if someone is wearing the crappy gear just to make their party mad. And although in frustration it may seem like they're doing it intentionally, in most cases, I doubt they are. They're probably just casual or a new player who doesn't know where to find gear (it's not actually obvious; when I started I didn't know where to buy Ironworks until a guildmate told me, and I was well past 50).

Edit:

Re the job responsibility issues:

The tank's job is to hold aggro on as much as the tank can hold aggro on without dying. If you're running without a healer, the tank should often NOT hold aggro on every enemy, because they can't survive that much. Meanwhile, the DPS can use their own protectives, heals, potions, and crowd-control to mitigate damage against them from the enemies the tank did not grab, while taking down the ones the tank is holding.

The job of the DPS is not always to maximize DPS in various situations such as:

1. Doing so will cause them to take more damage than the DPS increase is worth (e.g. when running without a tank, and especially when without both tank and healer, kiting the boss to avoid taking extra damage is worth more than using that spell/ability with a longer cast time; in fact, sometimes you may want the DPS with aggro to do nothing but sprint for 20 seconds while the other DPS get free uptime and takeover the aggro before they become the sprinter).

2. Doing so will cause them to not be able to clear a later mechanic. This is true even in some mainstream content DPS checks. You save your cooldowns for major DPS checks if necessary. If you're running in a situation where the party's DPS relies heavily on passing DPS checks, you also save your cooldowns for those DPS checks. To go back to what I'm known for (the 4-player MinIL Royal Menagerie) if your party is having trouble killing tails with only 4 players on MinIL, then all players should save cooldowns for tails, because you'll get more damage output from ensuring the tails die than if you used the cooldown 10 seconds earlier to hit the main boss).

[Misstique]

It's only trolling is someone is wearing the crappy gear just to make their party mad. And although in frustration it may seem like they're doing it intentionally, in most cases, I doubt they are. They're probably just casual or a new player who doesn't know where to find gear (it's not actually obvious; when I started I didn't know where to buy Ironworks until a guildmate told me, and I was well past 50).

Yeah, when a new tank or healer is vastly undergeared, it's not always fun but I don't think it's really their intention to get carried or troll people. I mean when I was new, I had no idea what item levels were, how certain stats were better than others, or how much of a difference a few levels made. And tbh, I really doubt there is that many people actively trying to troll groups even though the forums make it seem so.

Personally, if someone is undergeared, I try to make up for it during the run and it's usually not a huge problem. If they are so undergeared that there is no way to finish a dungeon, (ie, undergeared tank or healer in vault / aurum vale) after a few wipes, I would just leave and eat the penalty instead of making a huge stink about it.

[Tint]

Hall of the Novice tells the DPS to kill the adds not pick them up and hold aggro. What the actual hell.

go and try DD lesson 5 again ^^ YOU are told to go and rescue the healer when the add spawns. the tank ignores the adds completely.

[HyoMinPark]

so just like having to play dps on a healer class \^^/

btw in the hall of the novice - where we have learned that we should do dps on a healer class - we also have learned that THE DD CLASSES PICK UP THE ADDS ^________________^

Hall of Novice actually tells healers that, when they aren’t healing, to weave in offensive magic.
It also tells DPS to save a healer, but it doesn’t tell them to tank things FOR the tank.
Tank Hall of Novice mentions tanks should keep adds off of all party members.

Make the inference there: tanks should still pick up adds, and hold hate on all of them.
In other words, it IS the tank’s job to grab adds and hold hate on ALL of them.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

so just like having to play dps on a healer class \^^/

btw in the hall of the novice - where we have learned that we should do dps on a healer class - we also have learned that THE DD CLASSES PICK UP THE ADDS ^________________^

Healers also have a full arsenal of DPS abilities. It's almost like they were intended to be used. DPS, on the other hand, have exceeding few options to mitigate or sustain long-term damage.

[Selova]

snip.

Given the op's situation and others like it, I'd hazard a guess that these people are brand new. If you are a new player that doesn't use forums to ask questions or google search FFXIV gear guides, chances are they aren't going to have any idea about the vendors that sell gear for gil/poetics in the foundation or Rhalgr's Reach. Case in point, was in a dusk vigil on my 52 Machinist yesterday and the tank ended up leaving because the healer was using a level 34 weapon at level 52. Granted I'd like to assume most people are smart enough to understand that there is clearly a problem if you are using any gear that is 20+ levels below your actual level and at least put some kind of effort to find out what they need to do to fix it, you do have those special cases. They either need to put in some kind of in-game tutorial/quest or make it so dungeons, at least at the higher level have ilvl requirements.

[Tsumdere]

go and try DD lesson 5 again ^^ YOU are told to go and rescue the healer when the add spawns. the tank ignores the adds completely.

Honestly, I am at a loss for words. Pack it up boys and girls. We've all been playing the game wrong for years. It's actually the BLM's job to hold hate on Conla in Dun Scaith. If they die in one hit, they are just being bad tanks who don't use cooldowns.

-snip-

Thank you. You said this much more clearly than I ever would.

[Tint]

you can all say whatever you want:

the hall of the novice IS teaching new DDs to pick up and - tank the adds.

and it somehow even makes sense, in 4 man content with a single tank. i can see an idea of tank tanks boss, DDs tank Adds, healer heals all of them. of course it's more effective that tank tanks boss AND adds and DDs and healer both are dpsing. but it's just another point in the gameplay discrepancy between the devs wich want tanks in tank stance and healers healing vs the community which wants dps dps dps.

and btw it was actually NOT intended that healers use their dps abilitys in group content... and BLM does have a defensive cooldown...

[Mavrias]

you can all say whatever you want:

the hall of the novice IS teaching new DDs to pick up and - tank the adds.

and it somehow even makes sense, in 4 man content with a single tank. i can see an idea of tank tanks boss, DDs tank Adds, healer heals all of them. of course it's more effective that tank tanks boss AND adds and DDs and healer both are dpsing. but it's just another point in the gameplay discrepancy between the devs wich want tanks in tank stance and healers healing vs the community which wants dps dps dps.

and btw it was actually NOT intended that healers use their dps abilitys in group content... and BLM DOES have a defensive cooldown...

A lesson teaching ypu the importance of killing adds quickly (e.g. kill the adds before they kill a party member) is not "dps are meant to tank adds." Don't be a fool.

BLM's mana ward protects against magic damage only. Cocna's hits are physical.