Can we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?

[basketofseals]

The problem is that players don't think outside the box and, even when they're doing synced content, still ultimately want a faceroll. A disturbing number of players actually think a lot of the stuff I do is impossible, even if it's actually rather easy. You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob, and that the DPS should only focus on maximizing DPS.

I find this to be completely dismissive of other people's opinions. Are others not allowed to value their own time? Every other person in the party decided that at that moment they would put in the effort to complete a dungeon. That includes having their job skills, setting aside the time to reasonably complete a dungeon, basic knowledge of their class, and having relevant gear. If you cannot take the 5 minutes it would take to nab the relevant gear from a vendor or the market board, then you're intentionally being a leech. It's no different than if you were to just watch netflix and press a single skill every so often. This has nothing to do with difficulty or wanting to faceroll content and it's ridiculous how little empathy you have for your fellow players.

Also yes it is a tank's job to have aggro on every mob. I cannot even believe this is up for debate. It's literally what the role was designed to do.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob, and that the DPS should only focus on maximizing DPS.

Uh... that is their whole job. If DPS aren't maximizing DPS and tanks are letting aggro fly all over the place, what's the point of either? What else are they supposed to even do?

[HyoMinPark]

While I appreciate the defense, and you were partly right - I do enjoy carrying people to some extent (at least when I'm healing because it makes it more of a challenge) - you were also partly wrong. I don't just do it for the carry challenge. I genuinely enjoy oddball comps. If you put me in a party and the tank has i120 gear in a Lv70 dungeon, I will approach it like a 3-player run with no tank and with one of the DPS (in this case the poorly-geared tank) getting hit all the time. Which I have done before (as part of my daily freeform roulettes in which I go with whatever comp happens to join, with no role restrictions). That's if I'm healing. If I'm tanking and my healer is that badly undergeared, I approach it like a Tank and 3-DPS run with one DPS whose damage output is ridiculously low. I have also done this before, same source. If I'm DPSing and neither the tank nor healer have gear nor have any idea what they're doing, then it's a write off .

That’s your opinion though. And what you find fun. I don’t find it fun when a tank can’t hold aggro, and I’m forced to either tank things as a DPS, or heal both the tank AND the DPS that are now tanking mobs when I’m on healer, which also cuts into MY DPS as a healer. Because now I’m spending my GCDs healing the tank AND the DPS instead of weaving-in healing AND DPS.

You may like carrying players; I don’t. Don’t try to apply your mindset to everyone.

You can run a vast number of dungeons (and even various trials and raids) in this game with oddball compositions, without having to unsync it. Heck, you can all-DPS a lot of stuff too. In fact, for some older bosses, it should theoretically be possible for two physical ranged DPS to duo it on synced mode by "bouncing" the boss (continuously alternating who takes aggro so the boss keeps running back and forth instead of actually attacking). Getting PUGs to pull off that kind of strategy is virtually impossible, though I have cleared a few of the more difficult all-DPS runs with PUGs by gaining a few extra seconds of uptime at the start of the fight via bouncing.

Again, this is for things that you and/or your friends would find fun. And perhaps a group of randoms would find it fun to do something like this in, say, The Vault, but the vast majority will not. Just look at all the complaints in the Tales of the Duty Finder thread about tanks being undergeared or healers being undergeared and making runs last far longer than they should be.

The problem is that players don't think outside the box and, even when they're doing synced content, still ultimately want a faceroll. A disturbing number of players actually think a lot of the stuff I do is impossible, even if it's actually rather easy. You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob, and that the DPS should only focus on maximizing DPS.

It IS the tank’s job to ALWAYS have hate on ALL mobs. That is literally what the job is designed to do: TANK THINGS. I’m all for thinking outside the box, but applying this mindset to roulettes all because one person can’t be arsed to spend a couple thousand on NQ white vendor gear, and instead come in wearing gear WAY underleveled for the content? No, thank you...

I will agree that, to an extent, a lot of players cry about things being “too hard” and wanting “nerfs” for things, but I would not find having to tank mobs as a BRD or a RDM or an AST or SCH as something “hard” or “fun to do”—it would be an annoyance, and nothing more. I wouldn’t find having to heal a tank in Ironworks gear in Sirensong “fun” or a “challenge” either. I know that’s my opinion, but still.

[SenorPatty]

The problem is that players don't think outside the box and, even when they're doing synced content, still ultimately want a faceroll. A disturbing number of players actually think a lot of the stuff I do is impossible, even if it's actually rather easy. You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob, and that the DPS should only focus on maximizing DPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

[Kacho_Nacho]

While I appreciate the defense, and you were partly right - I do enjoy carrying people to some extent (at least when I'm healing because it makes it more of a challenge) - you were also partly wrong. I don't just do it for the carry challenge. I genuinely enjoy oddball comps. If you put me in a party and the tank has i120 gear in a Lv70 dungeon, I will approach it like a 3-player run with no tank and with one of the DPS (in this case the poorly-geared tank) getting hit all the time. Which I have done before (as part of my daily freeform roulettes in which I go with whatever comp happens to join, with no role restrictions). That's if I'm healing. If I'm tanking and my healer is that badly undergeared, I approach it like a Tank and 3-DPS run with one DPS whose damage output is ridiculously low. I have also done this before, same source. If I'm DPSing and neither the tank nor healer have gear nor have any idea what they're doing, then it's a write off .

You can run a vast number of dungeons (and even various trials and raids) in this game with oddball compositions, without having to unsync it. Heck, you can all-DPS a lot of stuff too. In fact, for some older bosses, it should theoretically be possible for two physical ranged DPS to duo it on synced mode by "bouncing" the boss (continuously alternating who takes aggro so the boss keeps running back and forth instead of actually attacking). Getting PUGs to pull off that kind of strategy is virtually impossible, though I have cleared a few of the more difficult all-DPS runs with PUGs by gaining a few extra seconds of uptime at the start of the fight via bouncing.

The problem is that players don't think outside the box and, even when they're doing synced content, still ultimately want a faceroll. A disturbing number of players actually think a lot of the stuff I do is impossible, even if it's actually rather easy. You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob, and that the DPS should only focus on maximizing DPS.

*nods*

I'm used to being partially right and partially wrong. lol.

I totally get what you mean about oddball comps and the pleasure they can bring. It's the biggest reason I love palace of the Dead. Well, the second biggest. I like the glamor gear too.

I find the biggest challenge is to make sure everyone is one the same page when facing a hurdle with an unusual assortment of jobs. But, once you get that, you can pull off all sort of things, especially when people are willing to look at all of their abilities and not just the ones they use the most.

You seem like a cool person. I hope we get to run some content together at some point.

[Oscura]

You just can't be stuck on this whole idea that the tank's job is always to pick up aggro on every mob

This is one of the most disappointing things I've ever read. It actually hurts reading this.

[basketofseals]

I find the biggest challenge is to make sure everyone is one the same page when facing a hurdle with an unusual assortment of jobs. But, once you get that, you can pull off all sort of things, especially when people are willing to look at all of their abilities and not just the ones they use the most.

I hope you don't think ill of the majority of the people in this thread. Personally I love off meta-comps, and I don't mind if someone's doing poorly in a dungeon provided they're putting an effort into it. There's just a big difference between doing this with some friends in a pre-made, and forcing this on to random players.

[Aster_E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

Also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

[Tint]

[..] but I would not find having to tank mobs as a BRD or a RDM or an AST or SCH as something “hard” or “fun to do”—it would be an annoyance, and nothing more.

so just like having to play dps on a healer class \^^/

btw in the hall of the novice - where we have learned that we should do dps on a healer class - we also have learned that THE DD CLASSES PICK UP THE ADDS ^________________^

[Tsumdere]

so just like having to play dps on a healer class \^^/

btw in the hall of the novice - where we have learned that we should do dps on a healer class - we also have learned that THE DD CLASSES PICK UP THE ADDS ^________________^

Hall of the Novice tells the DPS to kill the adds not pick them up and hold aggro. What the actual hell.