Sam and Mnk need more than Diversion

[Lunali]

IMO, it isn't a problem with SAM and MNK, it's a problem with the mentality of tanks. Every tank is capable of holding hate against them even without diversion, they just don't want to do it.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

IMO, it isn't a problem with SAM and MNK, it's a problem with the mentality of tanks. Every tank is capable of holding hate against them even without diversion, they just don't want to do it.

It's because they have to actually lose a lot to maintain it if they're not circle shirking one another. It's not just a case of provoke and aggro combo. It's a case of, they need to waste a GCD if they're a DRK or PLD to go into tank stance. and then aggro combo. this causes issues rotationally for them because it consumes MP which they expend on Holy spirit rotation. Or just extra dps for the drk. Also aggro combos suck for dps. If people think a voke and aggro combo without tank stance will do anything to a monk or sam's enmity they are mistaken. They're only delaying the inevitable and in optimal gameplay you really don't want to aggro combo for obvious reasons.

Diversion just sucks. It needs to last longer or the CD needs to be available more frequently. OR we just need a straight enmity dump. I don't disagree however that tanks just don't want to do it. I've been in a number of parties where the OT walks around like he's got his finger up his bum while the MT dies and the boss goes on to kill everyone else. I'm just saying in optimized gameplay there's a reason why it's a hassle for the Tank to aggro combo. Hence why circle shirking is a thing because it alleviates the problems with normal aggro combos.

[Sylvain]

There's no way a competent tank would loose aggro on a single target. You must have been stuck with dps stance Tank who do 1 threat combo on pull and that's it

[Silver-Strider]

If they won't change Diversion to half emnity or at least buff it in some way to make it more effective, how about changing some skills in MNK/SAM toolkit to do so?

Purification on MNK could be reworked to be an aggro dump/TP restore, preferably with the Chakra requirement being removed.
Hissatsu: Yaten could be also be reworked to do the same for SAM.

[Tsilyi]

they can just make invigorate work like lucid dreaming/tactician/refresh. the ranged/caster classes have two threat drops, so melee should just have that as well. easy fix.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

IMO, it isn't a problem with SAM and MNK, it's a problem with the mentality of tanks. Every tank is capable of holding hate against them even without diversion, they just don't want to do it.

Ranged: Tactician, Refresh
Casters: Lucid Dreaming, Diversion
Dragoon: Diversion, Elusive Jump
Ninja: Diversion, Shadewalker

Every other DPS has two options should they so choose. Only MNK and SAM have one. So... please explain how this isn't an issue with these two jobs.

[Silver-Strider]

My V1S run this week

Tank: "MNK use your aggro dump already"
Me: "..."
Healer: "MNK doesn't have an aggro dump"
Bard: "MNK HAS NO CHILL!!!"

Edit: It didn't help that the tanks were dying left and right and that they couldn't hold hate against me, while in Fist of Earth because I legit tanked for 40% of the fight.

[KDSilver]

IMO, it isn't a problem with SAM and MNK, it's a problem with the mentality of tanks. Every tank is capable of holding hate against them even without diversion, they just don't want to do it.

If your spamming your aggro combo, yeah sure.

[Tsilyi]

I think the idea is that the only two jobs that have to worry about threat at all really are sam and mnk. if all the rest did as well it would be fair, but as it stands it is imbalanced. how they determine to fix this is up to them, but given the current (well, persistent since 2.0ish) mentality, it would simply be better to give more threat drops to melee to equal the other jobs so tanks don't have to resort to threat combo more simply because they are there.

[Mahrze]

idk, I think there are more pressing matters with MNK than the threat issue, even more so when we consider MNKs threat issue has existed since 2.0.