Can we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?

[NocturniaUzuki]

Here is the net-all solution to the problem:

Do the dungeon regardless.

If you have a tank who can't tank 2 mobs, just run as if you have no tank.

If you have a healer who can't heal, just run as if you have no healer.

It can almost always be done. Now if you have neither a tank nor a healer who, and only two DPS, things get significantly harder. Beyond what a random DF queue can likely pull off. And frankly it would virtually require two ranged DPS.

[MoroMurasaki]

Here is the net-all solution to the problem:

Do the dungeon regardless.

If you have a tank who can't tank 2 mobs, just run as if you have no tank.

If you have a healer who can't heal, just run as if you have no healer.

It can almost always be done. Now if you have neither a tank nor a healer who, and only two DPS, things get significantly harder. Beyond what a random DF queue can likely pull off. And frankly it would virtually require two ranged DPS.

I would direct you to the "Tales from the Duty Finder" thread where plenty of people have trouble completing these dungeons with a full group who are geared - now you suggest finishing a dungeon without that?


Who is taking Ketu Slash in Abania? It will oneshot once it's powered up with the bleed. Who is aiming cleaves away from the group with enmity bouncing around? You can't complete many SB dungeons without a full party. Sure, you could have a RDM and PLD try to make up for a healer but with as slow as the DPS would be going they would almost invariably run out of mp.

This suggestion just rubs me the wrong way. The answer is not to carry people as if they aren't a problem, it's to educate them about what they've done wrong and (if clearing isn't going to happen) kick them to spare the rest of the party the wasted time. Yes, one person (who made a mistake in not being geared appropriately) needs to requeue but that's still better than wasting a bunch of other player's time.

Votekick exists for a reason. If you want to help this problem continue by dragging woefully unprepared players through content they have been too lazy or careless to prepare for go right ahead, don't presume that is a "net-all" solutuon by any means.

[Lodinn]

{SNIP} You can't complete many SB dungeons without a full party.

You can complete most but it'll be painful. Just stock up rezzes for them busters. It's the worst in Abania and Bardam I reckon.
Healed almost the whole run of Ala Mhigo (starting from after the 1st boss) as a RDM, 'twas fun but the run took almost half an hour.
I agree with Uzuki on oddball comps, that's some nice fresh air in dungeons. People tend to be happy about those no-tank or no-healer runs in the end from my experience.

Regarding the original topic - some restrictions are due but I'm afraid they'd be pretty tight.
Barely managed to assemble il255 on my tank (alt role, alt character) before SB, 'twas pretty painful and bit costly and would I aim for say 270 I'd literally have to grind for like 2 more days just to ameliorate someone's DF experience.
With that gear I could do usual pulls (~2 packs at a time) but couldn't drop grit any much in Shisui. I'm okay with the idea of asking for like 250-260 for some of the first dungeons in SB but pretty please DO NOT turn it into "at least have ilvl corresponding to all loot from a dungeon 2 tiers lower than the latest unlocked". Even for tanks/healers lowish gear can provide acceptable performance.
Clarification: there are people who would be next-to-oneshotted even being synced so the failproof tactic doesn't really apply here. "You don't pay my sub" is a really bad mindset but people should be allowed to rely on their abilities and understanding of the game compensating for less gear. What fun is it if performance=gear?

[BillyKaplan]

What fun is it if performance=gear?

But that's how the game literally works, regardless of how much fun it is. Tanks are the most obvious example, as if they're behind on gear it'll be very obvious because 1. their HP will be uncomfortably close to the well geared/synced down dps in the party, already a big red flag, and 2. they will be unable to hold hate to save their lives, staying in tank stance and spamming agro rotations until the cows come home and still losing agro. Healers will be unable to keep up healing even with their strongest heals and dps will barely tickle the mobs. Wiping constantly because your tank is still in 260 gear or under when you're in Castrum Abania is also not the epitome of enjoyment