Dusting off the Tome: Summoner Feedback for 4.1

[zuzu-bq]

The same cannot be said for Summoner, because the very progression of the job was changed to accomodate the changes, so instead of living in 3 dots during a certain range of levels, you always have two now. You used MCH in the middle of the argument while the job was launched with cast bars but just following the "no cast til 52" concept of Bard and then followed saying SMN problem is the same even though it got essentially changed down to earlier levels? I think we should stop here friend and go back to good things pointed out on the OP. The discussion between you and me won't do anything but make this thread longer.

[Ariomi]

The same cannot be said for Summoner, because the very progression of the job was changed to accomodate the changes, so instead of living in 3 dots during a certain range of levels, you always have two now.

Your argument makes no sense at all. All classes unlock new combos abilities at certain levels. Taking away Summoner's dots is like removing a melee combo from drg/ninja/etc.
You don't see how that's a fundamental change? A class that had Four Gcd dots,(Shadowflare, Bio 2, Miasma, Bio 1 and some people even used Miasma 2 in the opener) fundamentally changed to two, is fundamentally as big of a change bard/mch getting cast bars with Wanderer's minuet/gauss cannon. (Atleast you could turn off wanderer's minuet/gauss canon. I can't get any of my dots back.)

Smn is not remotely the same. If You applied every dot summoner had, it would take 11 seconds, then you refresh each dot 6 seconds before the next. (Reapply after 18 seconds, reapply after 24, reapply after 30.)

Smn now spends almost no time applying it's dots. 3 seconds at the most. This has immensely changed the class. (Reapply all dots instantly after 30 seconds)

So your argument makes no factual sense and is completely wrong.

[zuzu-bq]

I actually said it was a fundamental change done in a different way so you cannot compare them the same. But you insist in doing so. I also said since we cannot agree ever we should simply agree to disagree with eachother. Oh yeah there is a thread saying they love SMN by the way, since you love "thread proof".

[Ariomi]

I actually said it was a fundamental change done in a different way so you cannot compare them the same. But you insist in doing so. I also said since we cannot agree ever we should simply agree to disagree with eachother. Oh yeah there is a thread saying they love SMN by the way, since you love "thread proof".

It doesn't matter if bard's change was in a different way. If they both bard and summoner have a single thing in common like... a fundamental change, that alters the way the class behaves, then you can absolutely compare. In neither case, were people completely satisfied.

[zuzu-bq]

SMN right now is very fun. It really feels like they just expanded the concept introduced in HW. Easing the dot applicationg so you can focus more on oGCD management. The real frustrating part is Bahamut's moves. Bahamut's damaging system is actually bad and one of the most non intuitive things in SMN so far. Besides that SMN feels pretty good besides being the only caster that can output comparable damage to double ranged comp. I been doing Ultimate with it and the only mini issue I've encountered is when Twin phases into Nael you have Bahamut and Rouse ready. But that's the same situation that happens on Exdeath post decisive battle no it's not a big deal anymore since people have managed to find ways to deal with it.

One big annoying thing is: takes forever to just test stuff with Bahamut on dummies. But that isn't a SMN only issue. Few other jobs have this with their own stuff too.