Dusting off the Tome: Summoner Feedback for 4.1

[Remedi]

Considering how dreadwyrm trance now interacts with their skills a removal od the dmg bonus doesn't seems so strange

[Karshan]

The BLM comparison was comparing Apples to Oranges. So that was entretaining, I guess. BLM has their gatings of his own, they just work differently. And so does most of jobs in the game. And that is going from your very own definition of it. But I see where you are going from, you want a skill that you simply can't use or you lose it but its avaliable to be used right?

I honestly think you're just overreacting to a change in a job you probably enjoyed previously and failing to see how strong would be to "ungate" aetherflow. Plus, while I do agree the dots buff was strong, SMN damage was not pitiful before that. The dot buffs is one of the biggest reasons SMN's own damage is really high right now on top of everything else they got.

A little bit of bad faith here ? His comparison is actually really good to make people understand why the lock is not ok.

We don't fail to see : we perfectly know that if you unlock Aetherflow AND don't lock aetherflow based abilities, it would just be Fester fest in DWT. We played main SMN for several months/years in HW so know how it was back then.
But now what ? Ridiculous opener mashing has not ended, gotten worse actually, we cannot wait for aetherflow skills (fster, ...) usage in DWT but we wait for it in Bahamut...If they wanted to break bursts, they failed, if they did not there is no point to gates.

It's not the abilities we want : it's aetherflow. The Number 1 rule of arcanists to do a great job, the very one, is : aetherflow on cooldown. Now, SMN has a 16 second window every minute where he cannot follow this primary rule, if the situation occurs. How scarce it might be, the very principle is absolutely NOT ok.

DRGs don't need to delay jumps for the entire LotD window, they still are able to gather eyes. I mean assume you delay LotD of 10 seconds for practical purposes, and jump is up again. You can use it right away, it's not greyed out for the 20 seconds left.
And I'm not talking about its potency here but the fact that you can gather an eye for next LotD WHILE in LotD.

So no, other classes are NOT gated the way SMN is, with no access to a key ability from time to time because of their own flawed flow.

[KumiKuzumi]

Why is it flawed? Because it's different from heavensward? There's a flow. The aetherflow phase, the dwt phase, and the bahamut phase. I play smn at a high level and the job feels good to perform. Even dps addle is a good choice between survival and dps. If you don't like the job just don't play it.

The only complaint I have is that garuda ifrit and titan are boring. Make us a summoner instead of just a pet control class with a sic button and free dmg. Make them similar to bahamut with epic summons and enkindles.

[zuzu-bq]

That 16s window is pretty crucial to align skills though and only gets weird on extense downtimes like Exdeath. So I don't see what is the issue. I'm siding with Kumi here, if you didn't like the change just don't play it. My point stands, the "gating" is made to force people into going on a more fix rotation. Which isn't a bad thing. You just want to go back doing something you did before.

[Remedi]

Consider that how DWT was used in HW was not the intended way to play it, when they revealed the SMN skills in HW they said that DWT was a way to fill the 30 secs void of waiting aetherflow coming back, they did not foresee the usage players found for it and probably preferred to change it in the expansion instead of changing it during prog and all which isn't a bad choice tbh.

[Karshan]

Yes indeed. Don't like that change. Stop it ? It's been my main since I play. It's not like it's a class I try out and don't like. Got any others like that ?
HS only added to arr style. SB redesigned it a bit too much.

So if my choice is playing my old class but not like it anymore, or spend hundreds of hours on another class to try not to be lousy in it, why am I subbing anymore ? Sad to end a game like that but why not... after all it all comes down to some people, like you, like the changes, some do not

[KumiKuzumi]

It's not really about liking it tho, but accepting whatever they decide to do. We're just here to play the game they created. I love blm and it's playstyle yet atm I'm glad to stick to smn just because of how unrewarding blm feels. And on smn, I don't like the recent Ruin changes. I liked the Ruin 3 mp sink. Yet we learn to enjoy what we get with each update otherwise what is the point of playing if you aren't enjoying it? If smn is unsatisfying to you, play and learn more jobs

[Ariomi]

It's not really about liking it tho, but accepting whatever they decide to do. We're just here to play the game they created. Yet we learn to enjoy what we get with each update otherwise what is the point of playing if you aren't enjoying it? If smn is unsatisfying to you, play and learn more jobs

People don't simply accept whatever people decide to do, they criticize it in order to make it better. Not sure you remember, but we are playing final fantasy a realm reborn. People weren't happy with 1.0, The entire game's history is about taking something that was only adequate and making it good. If you don't like something, you are free to switch to something different yourself, but if we just accept everything they decide to do, we would still be playing 1.0.

If a job is bad, and people aren't enjoying it, is square Enix just supposed to sweep it under a floor mat? Cause nobody accepted Sustain getting removed, Nobody accepted Machinist being underpowered, and paladin is actually viable for raiding this tier. Before this, in Heavensward, astro needed quite a lot of buffs to be useful. Do I need to mention 2.0 warrior?

[zuzu-bq]

SMN is viable, strong, and many people are either happy or adapting top the change, I don't get it then.

[Karshan]

And some are leftovers, because of changes they made that weren't needed.

It's just that I almost forgot I spent 3000 hours in that game, and Square turned the verb from spent to wasted, I just feel that's a bit of a shame but hey I agree here it's my opinion

Also : we have to play the game they decide ? really ? who is the customer ? Imagine the money stops flowing tomorrow, how long exactly do they maintain the game ?
So I'm sorry but we're playing and spending time, we have a concern in this, we're not all accepting "fate" on man-made designs.

Therefore, I acknowledge they make decisions, but if I dislike some I will never accept to just be quiet about it. In what world is it ok to say : hey you know the 3 years you spent playing SMN ? well we have these changes, if you don't like them throw those three years in a trashcan and go DRG lol