Dear Healers who don't DPS

[miraidensetsu]

Hiya, that's a bit of an unfair assessment IMHO.

If you share the 4.x guide you wrote and shared here, I'll gladly take back my word AND share it on the topic I posted and plan to update (giving you the credits for it, of course). I'm not an experienced player and would love to hear what good do you have to say. I'm aware that I have much more to accomplish and always trying to learn more and that's why I'm always looking for good guides.

And yes, I mined, but those who is actually updated for Stormblood? Few. Found a plenty of guides, but - taking White Mage's example - almost all of them are for Heavensward, wich included things like Stoneskin, Stance Dancing, Fluid Aura's damage... How to adapt these guides to an Stormblood reality? Without an updated guide, it is basically a guesswork. Who can expect an helpful response from who are always complaining and demanding things and use that large experience to use as a authority argument? Sorry, but not me.

Unless demand all healers should do this or that, why not create a guide teaching new healers how to fit DPS between heals? Why not share some 4.x healer DPS rotations (like what was done in this video)? That would kill 3 wild chocobos with one Stone 4 cast, that is healer not DPS'ing, lack of good guides and lack of healers itself.

And you bet that this is not just for you, but for everyone that says "I'm healing since 1st Astral Era and..."

[Taika]

Funny to see how much there are experienced healers (even those who only heals their static and don't have the guts to heal anything else) by here that is demanding healer DPS, but I see no 4.x healer guide on this forum, no topic sharing rotations for WHM, SCH or AST to help them to optmize their DPS while healing...

Seriously, you can't write off experienced people using their time to discuss healer play, answer questions and give advice just because they haven't written and published a long "official guide" or produced video guides for the job... I've been spending time on these forums since they came out and I don't think I've ever seen a question or a call for advice go unanswered, and that's thanks to all these lovely experienced healers out here. I myself have learned a lot from here, and am thankful for it!

[MoroMurasaki]

Funny to see how much there are experienced healers (even those who only heals their static and don't have the guts to heal anything else) by here that is demanding healer DPS, but I see no 4.x healer guide on this forum, no topic sharing rotations for WHM, SCH or AST to help them to optmize their DPS while healing... Just complaints, impositions and some more shaming.

No wonder no one wants to heal anymore.

I have personally both shared advice on DPSing as a healer in multiple "I'm new to healing, help!" threads (as well as here) which, while simple, is all quite effective. If I remember correctly my favorite response I've gotten to it is someone insisting that almost all enemies in post-50 content were immuine to Stuns. My advice centered around Holy and the window opened up for Dots by casting it once in that instance, sort of as a "beginner to DPSing on WHM" scenario.

I think that might have happened in this very thread, actually.

I have also benefited tremendously from advice offered by others both in this thread and others. Sebazy in particular dives deep into the nitty gritty of healer DPS both here and in other threads with links to logs and video and then posts about the strategy behind them.

We are also by no means the only people to habe offered these things up, almost every proponent of healer DPS in this thread who is a healer main has given similar advice.

It seems like you're angry there isn't a Sticky guide for each healer job on how to DPS but you realize we control none of that, right?

tldr I realize this thread is long and we can't expect everyone to read the whole thing but when you are going to come out with a specific criticism of the posters in this thread that centers on them not posting a specific thing I feel like you're setting yourself up for failure by not actually knowing what you're talking about.

[Chris131289]

I main WHM and I do DPS when I get the chance, I have more of an issue with tanks grabbing three groups of enemies forcing me to spam Cure II and running to the next group before I manage to get my Mana back up again after spamming heals just to attempt to keep them alive. I am usually good at managing my Mana but when I have no time for anything but spamming Cure II I have no chance to keep my Mana up so after the third pull of multiple groups of monsters my mana runs our even though I use everything in my disposal to keep it as high as possible.

So dear Tanks who want to rush but don't look at whether your Healers Mana can keep up with the damage you take tanking multiple groups of enemies: "Please slow down a bit"

[Sebazy]

If you share the 4.x guide you wrote and shared here

I've never really done a full on guide as per. In all honesty, I don't really think good 4 man healer play is complex enough to warrant it, there's no rotation to speak of beyond a simple common sense opener. Rather I've answered specific questions and given snippets of info relevant to people's comments.

For example:

Regarding not being confident in DPSing during large pulls...

In fact, one of the things that irks me the most with wall to wall pulling is that the tank completely denies me my ability to DPS, and usually when I am able to DPS everything's basically dead so I'm not able to contribute DPS. Essentially, big pulls are actually slowing down the group rather than pulling like 2 groups, we beat them down, and advance. The other fun things are when undergeared tanks use sword stance and start taking massive damage, so again, I can't DPS because I have to deal with a squishy tank.

I don't know how receptive you'll be to my suggestions, but eh, it was commented earlier that there weren't enough suggestions and solutions being banded around so eh, here goes <3

Simply put, my best DPS runs in dungeons have been with large pulls, it's as simple as that. I'm pretty much experiencing the opposite of what you're saying, if the tank pulls quickly and cleanly, that allows me to really go to town.

Eg: (3.8k DPS on a 21 minute run) vs (3.5k DPS on an 19 minute run)

The first link was with an excellent tank but the DPS wasn't really there at all (In fairness, the BLM also DC'd, so was better than their numbers might suggest). In the second link, the tank was solid but not doing nearly as pristine a job as the first group in stacking up pulls. So despite the DPS being roughly the same and the run actually being quicker due to no DC or such, my DPS actually suffered a little due to wasted potency on fluff pulls.

How do I do this? Probably the most immediate thing I'd suggest is that IMHO, stacking Thin Air and Lucid is the wrong way to go. Stagger them apart with the aim of having one for each pull to avoid the disastrous situation of running on fumes and having a minute to go on all your resource CDs. By comparison, by stacking both together, you're either using them significantly later than you could be, or you're pressing them early and potentially wasting a bunch of Lucid ticks as you promptly hit full MP.

Secondly, have faith in the holy stun and get a good handle on how long that first stun takes to bite. Even if your tank is taking a hammering, holy is incredible CC and with particularly slow groups or poor tanks, that's the purpose I'll use it for rather than it's raw DPS. Throw that first Holy and use the window to get Aeros up if you think you're not going to be able to DPS much more.

Third, don't be afraid to play it safe, but don't feel playing it safe means that you can't DPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdU4tRrX984

I explained this a few pages back but just incase you missed it, that Benediction look's close @35 seconds right? Look closer, I could have Bene'd 10 seconds later and it would have been fine (If a little nerve wracking). I'm not a huge fan of swift casting the opening Holy if I can avoid it, rather I tend to open with a Cure II on big pulls to gauge the incoming damage and go from there. I always suggest it, but recording and watching back works wonders here for realising how much or little room you're actually leaving on the table without the pressure of the moment skewing your judgement.

As far as PoM on bosses goes, I will use it if it's up at the start of a boss, but if it pops later, I'll save it for the next trash pack.

In closing, even on wall to wall pulls, WHM DPS is incredible. I'm pretty confident that with the tank from the first run I linked and more typical DPS, I could have hit 4k DPS across the run (I was 4168 going into the Coeurlfist). Seeing how hard I can push myself is the main entertainment in roulettes for me. And unlike static raids, it's really not that big a drama when I step over the line.

Being unsure who to throw cards at when playing without parser data....

But, how can you tell who's top if you're on console?

You can usually get a good idea by looking at who's 'try harding' the most.

Hounding the tank with sprint, engaging immediately, AoEing hard and minimising time lost to disconnects and AoEs are all things that are easy to look for and generally will give you a good idea of where to throw those cards.

Questions from a first time SCH getting used to how things go down in Expert....

Three tips to make your early dungeon life a little easier:

First up, communication wins the day, a simple 'Hiya, kinda new so go easy thanks <3' or such goes a long long way, most tanks short of the occasional bot will understand something on par with that and slow things down a tad to suit.

Secondly, if you feel like you're struggling, break things down and keep it as simple as possible, eye for an eye is kind of weak right now so I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock in it anymore. Rather focus on positioning yourself well and keeping the tank upright comfortably for the initial hit of the pull, once the tank is positioned with the mobs you want to focus on gauging the incoming damage whilst moving yourself into a position where you're ready to keep up with them once they sprint off for the next pack. Once you've got a feel for how much damage is coming in, then you can start working towards that bane. Remember that whilst DPS is very delicious gravy, keeping that tank upright and the run smooth is the meat and potatoes of the run. In short: Gauge the incoming damage > Position yourself properly > start DPSing. With practice you'll get significantly faster at this process, but progress at your own pace, not anyone else's.

Lastly, sprint sprint sprint. Try to use sprint out of combat where possible, and importantly, try to synchronise it with your tank. I find that if my roulette tank never sprints, I rarely do either now. It slows me down a little perhaps, but it keeps things safe as there's literally nothing worse in 4 mans than a tank shooting off into a dangerous pull leaving you with no way to keep up or catch up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdU4tRrX984 - A decent example of how I approach a nasty pull. Whilst I'm on whm, some of the techniques such as queueing Sprint for the full 20 seconds and dotting on the hoof are also very relevant to SCH as well.

PI usage outside of raids.....

The main use I find for PI outside of Savage is as a chaser for Medica II on the bosses with repeating AOEs, not so much for the AOE itself but as a free delayed OGCD 3K heal on the tank, it's not a huge amount by any stretch, but it all adds up in avoiding ever needing to cast a single target heal on the tank.

I can go on and on but yeah, there's loads of of nuggets spread about, but spread out is kind of the key word here. If you're not part of the conversation at the time it can be pretty easy to miss out on it.

[era1Ne]

Unless demand all healers should do this or that, why not create a guide teaching new healers how to fit DPS between heals? Why not share some 4.x healer DPS rotations (like what was done in this video)? That would kill 3 wild chocobos with one Stone 4 cast, that is healer not DPS'ing, lack of good guides and lack of healers itself.

And you bet that this is not just for you, but for everyone that says "I'm healing since 1st Astral Era and..."

I remember back in the day an discussion in the novice chat of new people demanding mentors to explain every fight and so on, without them asking and some of them even wanted the mentors to get kicked, if they don't do it. To put it blunt, i never understood such or similar behaviour, because at the end of the day, everyone who wants help, should ask for help. Of course sometimes you get an rude or non answer at all and then those people can start complaining, but please do not expect people to do the work for you and ask if you want help. Especially in this game, i found a lot of friendly and helpful people. As for healers, yes there are not many guides, but most of it can't be explained in guides really, since healing is more situational then other classes imo.

[miraidensetsu]

To put it blunt, i never understood such or similar behaviour, because at the end of the day, everyone who wants help, should ask for help.

Unfortunately, not always a couple of tips can solve a doubt. How job works or how job mechanics fits together is not easily explainable by the in-game chat. And not always someone will have the patience to explain it over and over and over again. And this turns out more difficult to someone finds help.

On that context, the guide serves as starting point. The player can follow the guide main guidelines and adapt itself according with the fight.

By myself, I'm taking some outdated guides as starting point and trying to adapt myself.

Of course sometimes you get an rude or non answer at all and then those people can start complaining, but please do not expect people to do the work for you and ask if you want help. Especially in this game, i found a lot of friendly and helpful people.

No problem. I don't expect any help from this forum anyways, even if I ask. For me, it is more useful if I ask at NN if it has a short answer or if I'm looking for tips. At least on Famfrit, the mentors actually helps the sprouts.

Inside the game, sure, I found a welcoming and helpful community.

At this forum? You can look at this whole topic that was 100+ pages of demands, shamings and git gud argument. To the point I would drop the duty immediately if comes to the same party as some of the top-tier person by here. Not because they're bad (they aren't, I'm sure), but because I now have a pretty bad image of them. That while I'm most of time forgiving and easygoing.

But if you don't want to help, that's fine. I don't even expect that much from you.

As for healers, yes there are not many guides, but most of it can't be explained in guides really, since healing is more situational then other classes imo.

Tanks, for instance, have guides teaching how to do tank swap, how are the ideal way to position mobs, what to do when some common nuisances happens, what does the MT and OT and even describes some rotations, like the aggro combo or DPS combo. And they even compiled all that info inside one easy to understand cheat sheet image. And tank's job depends heavily on the situation as well, and fail to do it can lead to a wipe too.

And there were guides for healers at Heavensward. And I don't think the game changed that much between HW and SB. Update those guides is not that much work at all. Perhaps some of them can even be done while waiting the queue for a DPS sub.

[miraidensetsu]

snip

OK. You were useful for that healers. Great.

But those tips tends to be too specific to be useful for a wider range of people. And is too scattered to be available when someone besides the OT needs that piece of info. And sometimes, it is so hidden that find it is almost accidental.

Besides, I don't think you have the patience or time to answer all of my many questions when I need. Even if you were my master or something.

That's why I prefer to look for guides, youtube videos or use the search box at Reddit to look for the info I need. And those things don't have the info I need that I ask at NN, to the FC and lastly Reddit or here. On that order.

But thank you for your work for the community. Even if it isn't on the format that I need, your work is important and helps a lot of people. I take back what I said about you and apologize for that.

[miraidensetsu]

snip

THIS.

Lost the count of how many times I saw the tanks HP go down from 100% to 60% in a GCD time. Situations where the choice is between letting the tank die to pull off a holy or spam Cure II. Specially when my oGCDs are already on cooldown.

[Cynfael]

At this forum? You can look at this whole topic that was 100+ pages of demands, shamings and git gud argument.

If that's the only thing you took away from this thread, you didn't actually read that much of it; that, or you are cherry-picking the parts that offend you most and not wanting to acknowledge the posts where people made helpful suggestions as to how to leverage healer DPS while balancing it appropriately with healing requirements.

As for guides, I'm not sure what you're expecting to see. DPS and Tank roles have buff/stance timers to be observed and set combos that need to be executed in sequence for optimal results; healers do not. There is no hard and fast rule of "when target drops to X% HP, use this spell." There are also a number of ways to achieve the same result while healing, so many attempts to create strict healer guides end up spreading disinformation or inadvertently promoting poor gameplay. I think all of this is why there are more often guides on using spells and cooldowns in certain encounters (e.g. Savage, Primal EX) than on the nuts and bolts of specific healer Jobs.

If a player can read tooltips, learn through practice, and benefit from advice they find useful, they will be perfectly fine. If they have specific questions about how certain spells and abilities work or what some useful applications for them are, I haven't observed that the forum community is miserly with its collective expertise.