Beastmaster: A proposal at utilizing a pet system for the Tank role

[jackass1203]

No thanks if there's going to be a new tank class I'd rather it be Blue Mage. As for a pet class the next one I'd rather see is Puppet Master.

[Xenosan]

BLU/BST/PUP..

BST is the only one I can imagine wearing Fending, personally.

'Pet' jobs is just a UI facade at the rate SE is going.

It's just how they implement, and seeing the progress on ARC I think by 5.o they'll have it figured out.

[jackass1203]

BLU doesn't necessarily have to be forced to use Fending gear. They can easily just have their tank stance increase their health and defense to be up to par with the other tanks. And the Puppet Master comment was meant as for DPS not Tank. If they were to add another pet class I'd rather them add Puppet Master instead of Beast Master.

[Savagelf]

I been of the might set the puppetmaster make the better tank job the beastmaster. i think that ffxiv should have melee pet dps job as it has healer pet job and dps spellercaster
pet job

with blue mage could be more focus dodge focus tank dodge use more int skills

[Adrualt]

I honestly think instead of it being a pet in the traditional SE and FFXIV sense it'll be more of a direct extentsion of the player. Add just a little range to the PUP's attacks and instead of a weapon, it's the Puppet. More of a direct control via strings very similar to how Kankuro controoled his puppets in Naruto. So your actions and rotations are your pets. No petbar or anything.

[Savagelf]

i could see you unload your debuff on your puppet or mammets

[Marxam]

Lore wise it would make the most sense for BLU to be a tank but if the player outcry for RDM and SAM is proof that if the community makes enough of a fuss about it then SE will listen, then yes it is possible to have a pet class as a tank. I personally want to see PUP as a viable tank simply due to the fact that you can augment your defensive cds by having your pet stack with you or tank another enemy.

For example:

Tactical Switch - Increase defense by 15% for you and your puppet. Duration 10 secs. Recast 120 secs.

With the example above you can now have your puppet stack with you to get a combined 30% defense increase for a tank buster or have it attack a separate enemy. This could in theory mean that this tank job can take two separate tank busters simultaneously. PUP would revolve around using your puppet to help augment your defensive cooldowns similar to how WAR revolves around Inner Beast and DRK revolves around Dark Arts. The puppet would be much simpler to control and would have all its movement tied to attack and would primarily stay with you unless you instigate a "command". Examples of your puppets commands include:

Valoredge - Have your puppet continuously attack a target. Range: 3y. Potency: 150. Increased enmity. Execute again to return puppet to your side. Recast 2.5.
Sharpshooter - Have your puppet attack a target. Range: 15y. Potency: 120. Increased enmity. Recast 2.5.

Valoredge has your puppet run up to an enmity and solo tank it in the spot where the enemy is while Sharpshooter acts as your ranged attack similar to Tomahwak or Shield lob. Your MP would act as the puppet's life bar that slowly depletes when taking damage. It's gauge would be a simple bar that fills up when using actions and when you execute commands to your pet it depletes a portion of it. However you could easily swap BST for PUP but the point is that I want a tank that is more than just press a button > reduce incoming damage. It's one of the reasons I main WAR and DRK simply due to the flexibility of how their cds work and how you can augment it.

[Vladmiere]

Um, what? I can shoot down an idea for whatever reason I please (not that I have any authority, mind), and the reason I provided is of critical importance. If SE can't make pet classes well, then they shouldn't make pet classes. If you think I'm wrong, then say so.



Variety is not a good excuse for bad design. I would much rather not see Beastmaster at all than to see it done poorly.

Uhm what is wrong with the summoner? It is currently the dps to be in high-end progression as a caster. Only RDM comes close. Seems more of an identity crisis as its only flaw over the implementation of the job. Minus a stint in 2.0 days having to actually smack things with the book the summoner is in a good spot. They can easily implement pet jobs with the feel of a pet aesthetically but the spells and pet abilities coming from the user directly but having a cast animation show the spell or ability coming from a pet.

And yes if you try to "shoot down" an idea then you need a proper reason. This thread was created with the purpose of a person trying to share their idea on an upcoming possible job design and to say SE has implemented pet jobs poorly does not really give us many contexts as to why they have implemented the job poorly. Poor AI? Easy for the pet to be killed? The scholar has been a strong job since its inception and minus a window from 4.0-4.1, it has been the defacto goto healer in raids and all areas of content in the game minus pvp which was dominated by Astros til recently.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Uhm what is wrong with the summoner? It is currently the dps to be in high-end progression as a caster.

Depends how you define "wrong." How powerful SMN is, or isn't, isn't relevant in the context of this conversation when its power has little to do with it being a pet class. You could make any class powerful through sheer numbers, it doesn't necessarily indicate anything about how the class is designed or played.

They can easily implement pet jobs with the feel of a pet aesthetically but the spells and pet abilities coming from the user directly but having a cast animation show the spell or ability coming from a pet.

That's...not a pet class. Not in the ways that matter, anyway. Is MCH a pet class? Because that's actually more involved than what you're describing.

If a Beastmaster tank's pet isn't tanking, directly or indirectly, then the concept is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. What is even the point? Aesthetics? Seriously? You honestly think that will adequately capture the fantasy of Beastmaster, let alone as a tank?

And yes if you try to "shoot down" an idea then you need a proper reason.

SE being poor at designing pet classes is about as "proper" as reasons get for shooting down the idea of SE designing another pet class.

Stop saying I don't have a reason when what you're trying to say is that you're not convinced.

to say SE has implemented pet jobs poorly does not really give us many contexts as to why they have implemented the job poorly. Poor AI? Easy for the pet to be killed?

There are two main issues, as I see it, both of which would likely see exaggerated effects on a tank.

The first is pet movement. It's a chore, to put it nicely. On one occasion, I had to tank Aiatar with Topaz Carbuncle early into the game's life cycle, and it wasn't fun. Was it doable? Yes, but that fight is simple, and even that took far more focus than it deserved. It was not fun; it was annoying.

The second is ability queuing. Ever had Contagion not execute when you wanted it to (or at all)? Well, what if instead of Contagion it was Provoke, Vengeance, or Hallowed Ground? It would be a disaster. Not only is it important as a tank for your abilities to execute in time, it's often important for them to execute at a precise time. There are means to play around this (with Steady, for example), but would anyone want to? I wouldn't.

There are some other issues as well, such as stacking the pet for group soaks, targeting the pet for healing, and how to handle pet deaths.

The bottom line is this: if the pet is managing any of the tanking responsibilities, whether that's enmity generation, enemy control, or cooldown usage, then it will be a mess. All of those call for more pet responsiveness than we currently have.

The only way I see a Beastmaster tank "working" is if the Beastmaster tanks and the pet is only responsible for tanking non-essentials, such as DPS and, maybe, utility. But at that point you might as well just make Beastmaster a melee pet DPS instead.

[Xenosan]

It has to fit and function within XIV archetypes.

Rook/Bishop, Earthly Star, any DoT/HoT/DR+ bubble, Sword Oath, Selene/Eos CD restrictions (hell Defiance/Deliverance), and Demi Bahumut are all mechanics that could pass as pet functions, if a kit was built to feature them.

Absolutely, a BST tank (or any pet tank) couldn't function like XI's BST, nor could it function like SMN+Titan-Egi.

But to expect a 'pet job' only meeting that label if it has that same level of explicit pet control management ...

... is like saying pre-Stormblood that the only way RDM would truly be a RDM is if it roll as a DoM-Healer or a DoM-Caster.


Sorry for repeat, but for me it comes down to just the gearing choice. BST to me makes sense in Fending, BLU makes sense in Scouting (but that's all just my opinion!). We're due for a DPS in Scouting/Maiming.

Everything else about a 'pet kit' is subject to dev discretion.