Ivalice: Raid & Reconciliation

[Anonymoose]

Don't know if this is the right thread

If it relates to Return to Ivalice in terms of interpreting it as accurately as possible and comparing it to its origins to see what's the same and what's changed, this is a good place for it.

[A]fter the final boss fight, the reporter (can't recall name) says the boss wasn't speaking... something, but was perhaps speaking High Ivalice. And then Ramza states "You can understand him? Ah, the Echo!" So... is that the first confirmation that she has the Echo? And that Ramza does not?

I'm about to go back in to recapture the boss text and will pay closer attention, bit I assume that both are talking to the (silent) Warrior of Light, like the reporter asked "Was that High Ivalician?" and the WOL was like, "Iunno, I just heard him yelling about the Beoulves and for Ramza to save him." and then Ramza chimed in about "You understood!?"

[Grayve]

That makes more sense.

[Zephanoa]

A great write up --- as always for an Anony post. The one thing I am curious about is where exactly Rabanastre sits on the world map.

[Anonymoose]

A great write up --- as always for an Anony post.

Thank you for the kind words! Though there's still a lot more to go; I got distracted by Halloween and game review obligations, lol.

The one thing I am curious about is where exactly Rabanastre sits on the world map.

You and the rest of us, tbh. Try to reconcile all this. (Keep in mind: Rabanastre is the capital of the Kingdom of Dalmasca.)

Return to Ivalice
The Dalmasca Desert is a vast wasteland situated in the southern reaches of central Othard, sharing an eastern border with Nagxia.

Return to Ivalice
...thirty years ago, Dalmasca was invaded by the Garlean Empire...

Encyclopedia Eorzea
1517 The Republic first employs airships in its military conquests, easily conquering the small nation of Dalmasca in a display of terrifying power. Over the coming years, the Garleans seize control over the majority of the northern territories.

Encyclopedia EorzeaIn 1517, he was granted control of Garlemald as dictator by overwhelming popular support. The same year, the republic attacked Dalmasca, a small country nestled in the central mountains, and rained down fire upon it with their new airships. Thus, the Garlean army turned to conquer the south of llsabard.

White Devil
This masterpiece of Imperial ingenuity is the selfsame suit of warmachina operated by XIVth Legion tribunus Livia sas Junius in the Garlean Empire's invasion and subjugation of Ilsabard's northern reaches.

And don't forget Drest was from there, but thankfully, I don't think he was very specific about when his homeland fell.

Doesn't it look like Dalmasca is simultaneously a kingdom in northern Ilsabard that was conquered 60 years ago and a city in southern Othard that was conquered 30 years ago? And Livia's only 26, so she couldn't have been at either. (She could, however, have put down a rebellion in Dalmasca (where ever the hell it is) not long ago, earning her the nickname, "The Witch of Dalmasca").

But focus on geography for a minute.

To have Dalmasca acting as a massive desert and situated near Nagxian territory, you'd probably want it in the 30-degree belt with Thanalan rather than in the rain shadow of the mountain range. Most likely, that puts Dalmasca here-ish. Probably. Ish. (That explains the focus on airships.)

That's a decent place for it, I think. You can call that the "central mountains" between Ilsabard and Othard, right along the land-bridge created by that mountain range, but still technically Othard proper. I would imagine there's actually a second mountain range in Ilsabard under that cloud cover (or at least, an extension of the one we can see that bends more west than north). This would explain the seeming discrepancies in phrasing, why the Near East is a separate region, why Garlemald would take Dalmasca before moving on souther Ilsabard, and more.

Alright, let's go back to the year.

The lore book timeline:

1515 - Garlemald (the republic city-state) begins forcefully conquering neighbors
1517 - Dalmasca is conquered with airships, Solus Galvus is appointed Dictator by popular support.
1522 - Ilsabard's northlands are conquered and forged into an Empire, Solus rises from dictator to Emperor Solus zos Galvus
1528 - The Garlean Empire first moves on Othard
1551 - Livia is born
1552 - Doma falls
1553 - The Garlean Empire turns to Aldenard

Return to Ivalice says Dalmasca fell around 1547, which fits nicely into the Othardian campaign (1528 to 1552) but doesn't jive with any of the rest of the backstory. Without sweeping retcons, it might be best to assume that Garlemald invaded the Othardian mountain pass in 1517, during their solidification of the northlands (1515-1522). Using the mountain range as a defensive border, they would have followed it south to Dalmasca, where a natural bottleneck was created between the central and eastern continents, as they would later do with Ala Mhigo. This would explain why airships played such a crucial role.

Why go this far from the northlands? Because they were preparing to move southwards. Taking the mountain pass would prevent any aid or interference from the eastern continent while Garlemald hit southern Ilsabard and the Near East from two fronts. Little aid was coming from Eorzea; even if they were concerned about a growing empire that might one day threaten their borders, the city-states were continually at each others throats and the Ala Mhigan era between the loss of the Autumn War and the rule of Theodoric wasn't exactly stable.

Perhaps a good reconciliation is to assume that Garlemald occupied the Dalmascan westersand and capital in 1517, but (as they did in Doma) shifted the power structure down a step and left the B'nargins as paper tigers until they abolished the throne forsooth 30 years ago during the actual campaign for the eastern continent.

And then some rebellion popped up later for Livia to throw down.

It would take a bit of dev. polish and specificity to bring the Encyclopædia Eorzea, White Devil, Drest, and Return to Ivalice into harmony, but I think the above is a good guess for the time being.

[Alastair_Helyous]

What really bothers me with the whole "This is not an Ivalice sequel!" are actually the Ascians.

Not only are they named after the Scions of Light, but their sigils are the same as their Dark counterparts, but reversed.

Lahabrea's: https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...20130911062749

Mateus': https://orig00.deviantart.net/391e/f...y_mrespman.jpg

Then we add the fact that there's a disaster that separates FFXII's Ivalice from FFT's whose details were never given. But now the raid mentions a "flood", suggesting it is the aftermath of the War of Magi. Then there's the "Far East" mentioned on both Ivalices - which could easily be Othard.

The only thing that's really not blending is the magics, given that Ivalice has Summon, Black and White Magic.

[LineageRazor]

What really bothers me with the whole "This is not an Ivalice sequel!" are actually the Ascians.

Not only are they named after the Scions of Light, but their sigils are the same as their Dark counterparts, but reversed.

All Final Fantasy games borrow designs, concepts, and assets from previous Final Fantasy games, while giving those things entirely new identity and purpose in the newer game. FFXIV is no different, except in that it does so far more liberally than any other game in the series. It doesn't change the fact that when you see something in FFXIV that resembles something from the previous games, you can make no safe assumptions about it.

The Ascians' sigils may be borrowed from a previous game, but that does not indicate any kind of relationship with that previous game.

[Jonnycbad]

The Summons from FFT could just be a gameplay element since they're not referred to or used in the story of FFT. Same with Dragoons (which technically shouldn't exist till Ishgard).