nobody is concerned mages are losing half their spells?

[Alerith]

Read the thread. I've already shown that they can't count as just one, because then you'd very quickly run out of spaces on your bar.

Not necessarily. There is the possibility of a sub-menu within your skill bar. Instead of each spell taking up a slot on your skill bar, you have "Elemental Spells" take up ONE spot on your skill bar. When you press that, another bar comes up with all your elemental nukes. Fire, Blizzard, Aero, etc. This would only take up one actual skill slot.

Then you could have another spot on your skill bar for "Elemental Enfeebles" that operates the same way for Burn, Choke, Rasp, Dia, etc.

That's taken up 2 skill bar slots so far. So you still have 13 slot for job abilities and 10 for cross class abilities.

From a healers perspective, you would have one skill bar slot with an icon for "Healing Magic" and selecting that would bring up a bar with all your HP restoring spells. Cure, Regen, etc.

Another spot on your skill bar would be for "Enhancing Magic" and selecting that would bring up your list of enhancing spells. Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, etc.

[Inaaca]

Not necessarily. There is the possibility of a sub-menu within your skill bar. Instead of each spell taking up a slot on your skill bar, you have "Elemental Spells" take up ONE spot on your skill bar. When you press that, another bar comes up with all your elemental nukes. Fire, Blizzard, Aero, etc. This would only take up one actual skill slot.

Then you could have another spot on your skill bar for "Elemental Enfeebles" that operates the same way for Burn, Choke, Rasp, Dia, etc.

That's taken up 2 skill bar slots so far. So you still have 13 slot for job abilities and 10 for cross class abilities.

From a healers perspective, you would have one skill bar slot with an icon for "Healing Magic" and selecting that would bring up a bar with all your HP restoring spells. Cure, Regen, etc.

Another spot on your skill bar would be for "Enhancing Magic" and selecting that would bring up your list of enhancing spells. Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, etc.

While that would indeed conserve space, what a pain in the ass it would be in the heat of battle to have to open multiple menus just to cast a spell. No thanks.

[Viridiana]

Not necessarily. There is the possibility of a sub-menu within your skill bar. Instead of each spell taking up a slot on your skill bar, you have "Elemental Spells" take up ONE spot on your skill bar. When you press that, another bar comes up with all your elemental nukes. Fire, Blizzard, Aero, etc. This would only take up one actual skill slot.

Then you could have another spot on your skill bar for "Elemental Enfeebles" that operates the same way for Burn, Choke, Rasp, Dia, etc.

That's taken up 2 skill bar slots so far. So you still have 13 slot for job abilities and 10 for cross class abilities.

From a healers perspective, you would have one skill bar slot with an icon for "Healing Magic" and selecting that would bring up a bar with all your HP restoring spells. Cure, Regen, etc.

Another spot on your skill bar would be for "Enhancing Magic" and selecting that would bring up your list of enhancing spells. Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, etc.

While that would indeed conserve space, what a pain in the ass it would be in the heat of battle to have to open multiple menus just to cast a spell. No thanks.

Pretty much this. They seem to be trying to simplify things ("this won't require a manual to understand"). I doubt they'd change it to something so complicated.

[Alerith]

Pretty much this. They seem to be trying to simplify things ("this won't require a manual to understand"). I doubt they'd change it to something so complicated.

Pushing three buttons total instead of two is complicated?

Select spell > Enter
Select spell type > Select Spell > Enter

3 > Enter
1 > 3 > Enter

It's hardly complicated at all.

[darkstarpoet1]

Pushing three buttons total instead of two is complicated?

Select spell > Enter
Select spell type > Select Spell > Enter

3 > Enter
1 > 3 > Enter

It's hardly complicated at all.

you would then also be hitting another to toggle aoe on and off along with re-targeting your target you are casting on. yes, bringing up a debuff/scrolling to which one which is a few clicks there/selecting your target you are casting it on/turning aoe off and on/enter to cast spell is much more complicated when you have less than a second to start casting.

do you remember the reason for curaga to be made? it was because of the constant complaints here that people had too much trouble hitting that one button for aoe off/on. if they had issues with hitting one aoe toggle then they surely won't be able to figure out how to hit 7-8 keys.

edit: i am not saying whatever they plan on putting in will not work, but was just pointing out the issues that already had to be fixed because of bad mages. the best thing people can do now is state their concerns and not argue over anything and wait until the list of spells is released to see if their fears are warranted.

[syntaxlies]

many of the spells lost will be repurposed for jobs i think.

[Estellios]

Actually darkstar, Curaga for the MP cost of cure would be a bit OP efficiency-wise which is probably why they changed it. I mean we saw how easy it made everything beforehand. The devs had mentioned an intent for getting rid of the AOE toggle in the long run and instead implementing AOE versions of spells, so MP costs and all that can be better balanced.

(For the record I do like the AOE toggle but it would need to be better implemented and have increased MP costs added for AOE'ing)

[darkstarpoet1]

Actually darkstar, Curaga for the MP cost of cure would be a bit OP efficiency-wise which is probably why they changed it. I mean we saw how easy it made everything beforehand. The devs had mentioned an intent for getting rid of the AOE toggle in the long run and instead implementing AOE versions of spells, so MP costs and all that can be better balanced.

(For the record I do like the AOE toggle but it would need to be better implemented and have increased MP costs added for AOE'ing)

and that could have been done with the old system, correct? increase regular cure mp cost and then double it when it went to aoe. that's what you are promoting and i would agree with it, but the truth is poeple were complaining about the aoe button because they said it was too complicated. you can't tell me with that system in place like originally that having aoe(that increases mp cost if it's on aoe) and having just one low and high end cure wouldn't save space over the 5 we have now. that alone would have removed 3 sells.

that is all i was saying is they added 4 new spells for that very reason and now they turn around and have to remove over 30.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

The way I interpreted Yoshi-P's post was that they're aiming for 15 levels where you learn abilities.

Initially, this is how I saw it. Level 1, you learn six elemental spells. All six Elemental DoTs on level X.
Protect and Shell on level Y. Paralyna, Silena, and Poisona on level Z.

And later, I considered that abilities such as Soughspeak or Profundity. Soughspeak may be a -enmity, -potency trait. Profundity a +potency, +casting time trait. And that Spirit Dart, Elemental Shroud, Radiance, and Levinbolt would be coming back... in style while the elemental spells are repurposed and the lore retconned.

[NoctisUmbra]

The way I interpreted Yoshi-P's post was that they're aiming for 15 levels where you learn abilities.

Initially, this is how I saw it. Level 1, you learn six elemental spells. All six Elemental DoTs on level X.
Protect and Shell on level Y. Paralyna, Silena, and Poisona on level Z.

And later, I considered that abilities such as Soughspeak or Profundity. Soughspeak may be a -enmity, -potency trait. Profundity a +potency, +casting time trait. And that Spirit Dart, Elemental Shroud, Radiance, and Levinbolt would be coming back... in style while the elemental spells are repurposed and the lore retconned.

Indeed.

Keep in mind a lot of actions we have as skills now can be made into traits with 1.20. We are seeing a drastic increase in the number of traits after all, as I doubt attribute conversions are gonna make it through - at least not as they are now, shared across all classes.

4. Setting Actions and Traits

The following reforms will be made to the conditions for setting actions and traits:

• Upon learning an action for your current class, that action will automatically be set to the action bar and cannot be voluntarily removed. It will be possible, however, to move the action to another slot.
• Action costs will be abolished. Instead, a cap will be imposed upon the number of actions from other classes that can be set. The cap will be determined by the level of your current class.
• Players will no longer be bound by level restrictions when setting actions from other classes.
• For instance, a level 1 pugilist will be able to set a level 30 gladiator action. However, the effectiveness of that action will be scaled down accordingly.
• All traits will be made class-exclusive.
  Adjustments will be made so that certain actions will only unleash their full potential when paired with traits belonging to the same class.
• In conjunction with the above changes, the Actions & Traits interface will undergo redesign in order to make action placement and repositioning more intuitive. Readying an action for use will become a two-step process: players set an action, after which they will have the opportunity to rearrange the action bar.

There's a chance that many long duration 'buff' skills may take the form of traits with the upcoming changes. Such as Soughspeak being a trait that reduces enmity incurred by casting, but also reduces attack magic potency. I can also imagine skills like Profundity or even Resonance taking the form of traits. This would allow each player to cheery-pick their traits in order to specialize towards what role they will play.