Yotsuyu [Maybe spoiler]

[Alleo]

@CaesarCV:

About Yotsuyu faking it or not

Well for me it would be refreshing because lets be honest, not everyone will always change for the better even if they get lots of chances to do so. Having all the (alive) main villains change for the better kinda makes them less villains in my eyes. Sometimes (for me) its just better to have at least a bunch of them that will stick to their character to the very end.

We should also not forget that she enjoyed the torture and killing and even at the end when her death was near, she used her past in a way to manipulate us to stay and when she saw that we did not die she tried everything to take us with her. Someone like that should not just change to a very different person over night (or at all). Her having no memories would just completely destroy her character for me and it would feel cheap because its the easiest way to change such a person..

Right now if she does not fake it this will just turn into the Fordola of Doma where at the end people that suffered a lot under her will suddenly forgive her and she could be able to live her life normally. This kinda feels a bit like a fairytale. People are not that forgiven in real life and especially not for something like that. Her faking it and staying how she is would be a bit more realistic in my opinion. She would be able to get more information, maybe even try to worm her way out of punishment by making the people believe different..maybe she is hoping to get some good information from them that she could give back to Garlemald as a spy. And maybe she could be the other side of the medal where we see someone like Fordola being redeemed at the end but also get the lesson that you cant do that with everyone and that sometimes taking them out is for the best.

So for me her not faking it would kinda destroy her character and would at the same time feel cheap. Her faking it could give us the opportunity to see both sides of trying for redemption, one that succeeds and one that fails. Also it would kinda put a bit of a damper on the victory of doma that went far to fast and nearly flawless anyway.

(Could you imagine if Zenos survived but the battle left him with some amnesia? Would people be fine with leaving him alive? Or with him suddenly having a very different personality? Would the alliance truly leave such an enemy alive?)

[Khalithar]

I was a little disappointed with the amnesia angle honestly. My immediate reaction was “my god... she’s been troped!”

[Vayanne]

I hope if they go with amnesia, they’ll do it plausibly. Experiences play a vital role in the development of the personality but removing the memories of them cannot change a personality completely. The kind of trauma Yotsuyu suffered as a child leaves lasting marks that amnesia cannot “cure”. She may be given a fresh outlook on life but the way her past “moulded” her inner workings will show. She may become a good person. She may not torture people for fun anymore. But she may feel a sudden joy when someone gets hurt, even if she feels ashamed of it. And she may get inexplicably anxious upon seeing a child being mistreated.

[Waliel]

How about a split personality? Yotsuyu might lie dormant inside her due to all what happened, but be prevalent enough where eventually the sadistic side manifests unconsciously at times. Yotsuyu could even come out (after some time has passed) during the times when Tsuyu is asleep and have her plot and do evil stuff, Tsuyu of course being none the wiser about her other self and what she might be doing. You can even add the "watches in horror inside as the other self does things she hates" to the later stages.

[LineageRazor]

I was a little disappointed with the amnesia angle honestly. My immediate reaction was “my god... she’s been troped!”

I had the same thought! Honestly, the amnesia angle was a letdown. I'm hoping they do something interesting with it, but am not gonna hold my breath.

[DreamAngel-Ren]

How about a split personality? Yotsuyu might lie dormant inside her due to all what happened, but be prevalent enough where eventually the sadistic side manifests unconsciously at times. Yotsuyu could even come out (after some time has passed) during the times when Tsuyu is asleep and have her plot and do evil stuff, Tsuyu of course being none the wiser about her other self and what she might be doing. You can even add the "watches in horror inside as the other self does things she hates" to the later stages.

Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde theory, I like that

[CaesarCV]

Personally, I have kind of mixed feelings on the idea.

On the one hand, people have a point. They are more or less erasing the Yotsuyu character, and it is kind of cheap form of 'redemption' compared to more complex ones like Fordola, or a great deal of other options. Not to mention that it's not the most original idea, and can definitely be seen as a form of plot armor in an expansion that was perhaps a bit too liberal with the fake deaths. I can definitely understand the frustration about it, and why people see it as bad.

On the other hand though, I can't honestly see her faking it and still being evil providing an interesting story. Yotsuyu really can't be considered a convincing threat to the Doman government (and thus our story). She's far too hated by the populace to rally any sort of supporters, she's not dangerous on a physical level compared to skilled fighters like Yuigiri and Hien, she's already been forsaken by Garlemald, and as far as we know she's not any sort of brilliant manipulator. Even while faking amnesia it's hard to believe that anyone would trust her farther than they could throw her. What would she provide to Hien other than a (very easy to conquer) speedbump? The plot would be she does something evil, and Hien (or Gosetsu or the WoL or someone) cuts her down. Being a rather simple threat was fine for someone like the Qualyana broodmother, but I'm not sure it would be fitting for a more important character like Yotsuyu.

In addition, her old character really didn't have anywhere to go. She already represented the endpoint of the sort of hatreds that various characters get to, the total corruption that one can fall into. If she was faking it she would...just be the exact same. And I don't really see them going anywhere with that other than maybe being a foil to Fordola. Although she kind of already was and wouldn't need further story presence to be said foil. They might have needed to do something drastic in order to make the character workable into the storyline, although it can also be argued that they should have just left her at the bottom of the ocean.

The idea that some have proposed of a sort of Jekyll and Hyde scenario or battles between personalities, that's interesting I have to admit! And I really like it. It could be a way to present a sort of struggle between holding onto old hatreds or trying to move onto the future. And although it's a fantastic scenario, at the very least it's a fun one.

So yeah. Mixed feelings ha ha. Great to see some good discussion here though!

[Alleo]

In addition, her old character really didn't have anywhere to go. She already represented the endpoint of the sort of hatreds that various characters get to, the total corruption that one can fall into. If she was faking it she would...just be the exact same. And I don't really see them going anywhere with that other than maybe being a foil to Fordola. Although she kind of already was and wouldn't need further story presence to be said foil. They might have needed to do something drastic in order to make the character workable into the storyline, although it can also be argued that they should have just left her at the bottom of the ocean.

I honestly would have liked it for her to stay death. Her character was really good for the 4.0 story line because we saw someone taking it out on innocent people for their own sadistic wish. At the same time her past might have been used as a warning for Hien to not let that happen in his Doma again. She would have gotten her punishment but we would have also learned something from this. Her surviving this is imo just a punch in the face for all those people that suffered under her. Her being death could have made them move past their experiences and built a better Doma and yet with her surviving and maybe even having amnesia they will have to face her again and might not even be able to punish her. Yes some might be more understanding and might let go of their hate but I dare to say that most probably cant just let go of it that easy and now they know that she might be living her life in freedom, always with the fear that she might turn back to the person she once was and might start something again.

Redeeming Fordola who at least did not enjoy those horrible things she did was at least kinda acceptable for me if it was done in a reasonable way. Doing the same for Yutsuyu just leaves me feeling bad. I hope that we have the chance (which we did not have when we talked with Lyse about Fordola) to voice our opinion about her and that it can be a negative one too..because I would just be annoyed if my character is completely fine with that again.

In the end I kinda wonder if they would have gone the same way with a male character, or if its a bit special because they are females? Maybe its the skeptic side of mine but seeing how Zenos and that other Garlean soldier ended up I do kinda wonder why its the female ones that are maybe getting of the hook..(maybe Yuyuhase and Laurentius just need to bump their heads, then they will be free too)

(Sorry for that bit of a rant..I just really dont like they way they go with her..x) maybe I am just salty that people like her are alive while good ones like Haurchefant, Ysayle, Wilfred, Meffrid are death)

[Dalmacus]

Wow, i guess i predicted right. Or just that the story has become too cliche.

[Draginhikari]

Seems like Yotsuyu doesn't even recognize her own reflection which is what I assume the scene at the beginning of the trailer is (I'm assuming that's a mirror) and probably a bit of the conflict in Doma will be what they do with her as a result of that. Though it's a bit of a cliche it does present a certain conflict. In real world crimes committed by mental ill people are treated differently because of the awareness of the consequences of actions can be a bit shaking and certain treatment can fall under cruel and unusual punishment.

Though not like our world, Hien's personality and ethics could provide some hesitation to the matter of killing or imprisoning someone who doesn't even remember what they did, regardless of how sadistic or horrible the original act was. I'm kind of interested to see where that goes exactly. Regardless of the involved cliche.