If DRG could have a wyvern and high DPS

[Zanfire]

^because having a pet do some of your damage means your not a really high end DD anymore... lol

[Tonkra]

^because having a pet do some of your damage means your not a really high end DD anymore... lol

thats like the logic of people in ff...

drg dmg -> 100%

drg damage + wyvern damage -> again 100% or even more ;XD

[grandm]

countless polls, endless discussions, i think we all know where we all stand now. i hope SE have the feedback they need to sort this out. for me this discussion is over i won't be commenting again

[CrystalWeapon]

thats like the logic of people in ff...

drg dmg -> 100%

drg damage + wyvern damage -> again 100% or even more ;XD

Argued this point about 30 times now, but it's not as simple as applying percentages to damage. You have stats, your wyvern has stats, and in order to have a pet the dragoon will have to give up some of his stats in order to have a pet. These stats (att, str, crit attack, etc...) that determine damage done to a mob make it very difficult to balance this splitting of power. You give the wyvern too much (att, str, crit att, etc...) and the wyvern will hit too hard on monsters that match the dragoon's level. You give the wyvern too low it will do shit damage on bosses.

Not only will the stats of the dragoon be reduced to give stats to the wyvern, the damage will be further reduced when calculated against a monsters stats (vit, defense, etc...) So in essence your power is weakened as a dragoon then the damage calculations are applied TWICE against your split stats.

It's not as easy as taking 20% off the dragoon's damage per hit and adding it to the wyvern's damage.

I see countless arguements about how the job would be better off without a wyvern, but I don't really see any pro's to adding it besides the fact that you guys want a companion. How will having a wyvern make the dragoon better than a non wyvern dragoon with dragon like abilities?

The other pet jobs don't have any of the problems dragoon would because, the pets will be counted as a party member. The tenative pet job will not have to give up stats to use said pet, and the pet won't have to have reduced stats to that of a weakened party member. I.e. you could have a lv 50 pet class using a lv 50 mob (with lv 50 stats and abilities)

[Tonkra]

I see countless arguements about how the job would be better off without a wyvern, but I don't really see any pro's to adding it besides the fact that you guys want a companion. How will having a wyvern make the dragoon better than a non wyvern dragoon with dragon like abilities?

you mean.. you cant see pro's for being the absolute overpowered class you rolls all over others? thats what you mean? well about "fun" it cant be.

Well me coming from DarkAgeOfCamelot i can say, that especially petclasses are better at least when it comes to pvp... it is an advantage to have "two" characters instead of one... and it had advantages for the drg as well, you could do WS on your own. with different subjobs he also had a healing breath.

and its not just about a companion, its about fun and variety. i mean if we add only pure melee classes it would be boring. warrior will be, the monk will be.. and they will add other classes two.

for example you can see in videos like these, that even in FFXI drg wasnt a bad Damage dealer, but it was the FFXI community like here.. who didnt like petclasses. whyever. i mean you can see the strenght of petclasses like in World Of Warcraft, the hunter and warlock, which are really powerful

a pet to your side so doesnt mean, that you arent a dmg dealer class anymore dont know why people are thinking that... on the opposite.




in this vid the drg is dealing of around 80-95 dmg per auto attack... the wyvern around 25-30 = 120 dmg.
the samurai hit around 70-85 all in all. sam had advantages as well, faster tp generation etc. for more ws.

then you see the drg performing a skill attack (in the very beginning) 460 dmg on his own + breath attack from the wyvern 145 all in all = 615 dmg. which i think isnt bad at all.

against blu: (the wyvern with his armor looks nice doesnt it? )


the comm in FFXI didnt see that they always said "you miss many attacks, because on the paper your accuracy is lower than all others.." they compared "see the darkknight did 550 dmg with his skill and you only 460 dmg" (well helloo? there is also the wyvern breath attack you have to add, too?

and i played a drg myself very long time.. and compared the damage numbers in the chat window of the other dd's from my party... and it wasnt always that, that they did much more dmg.. not at all.


FFXVI Wyvern Dragoon doesnt mean that he has to be like in FF11
AND TO SAY. they neednt to design the wyvern dragoon exactly like in FFXI they could also go a very different direction for FFXIV. give the wyvern commands directly, not just indirect like in FFXI.. chose the target which he should attack... combine the wyvern more deeply in skill combos etc... not just breath attack.
give the wyvern his own skills that you also can activate, or can be activated by performing a polearm attack

give him:
- direct control about the wyvern (attack that guy, rest, aggressive, passive)
- let the drg equip the wyvern with different armory (chest and helmet)
- give the wyvern own skills (bite, dragon claw, healing/attacking breath).. in combination with yours -> skill combo
- give the drg a "Health regen" to their wyvern
- integrate them more into the drg's own abillities
- a trait/skill which transfers damage done to you to your wyvernpet (transfer pain)
- sacrifice your pet to receive health and a short stat buff (receiving dragons strengh)
- group heals and buffs do effect the wyvern
- wyvern LP bar is shown in the party menu
- lowering the time to recall your wyvern back (in comparison to FFXI)
to compansate this it isnt a real instant "call". after the drg uses the "whistle" to call him. the wyvern takes about 15 secs to fly back to his owner.


they could combine MUCH more the skill system with that of a wyvern... more like that you can do a WS combo on your own.. and much more like only letting the wyvern to perform a breath attack. there could be so much more.

the wyvern system in FFXI is old.. and would need a completely new overwork.
that you can DIRECTLY CONTROL the wyvern and his attacks.. maybe let him have his own skill attacks besides breath attack. combine it with your own skill attacks.
and drg would be all in all a really damage dealing machine. in other MMorpgs it does work also (see hunter, warlock in wow.. and many other classes in other mmorpgs. it does work and it can. especially with a new system). balancing petclasses isnt easy.. because they are complex and not easy to play as well.. and for me thats where the fun starts.

you're talking about that yoshida should try something "new" refering to the traditional Dragoon style.. well a completely new Wyvern system.. not at all like we've seen in FF11, would be really somethin new.

that would be interesting..

[Andrien]

- direct control about the wyvern (attack that guy, rest, aggressive, passive)
- let the drg equip the wyvern with different armory (chest and helmet)
- give the wyvern own skills (bite, dragon claw, healing/attacking breath).. in combination with yours -> skill combo
- give the drg a "Health regen" to their wyvern
- integrate them more into the drg's own abillities
- a trait/skill which transfers damage done to you to your wyvernpet (transfer pain)
- sacrifice your pet to receive health and a short stat buff (receiving dragons strengh)
- group heals and buffs do effect the wyvern
- wyvern LP bar is shown in the party menu
- lowering the time to recall your wyvern back (in comparison to FFXI)
to compansate this it isnt a real instant "call". after the drg uses the "whistle" to call him. the wyvern takes about 15 secs to fly back to his owner.


they could combine MUCH more the skill system with that of a wyvern... more like that you can do a WS combo on your own.. and much more like only letting the wyvern to perform a breath attack. there could be so much more.

the wyvern system in FFXI is old.. and would need a completely new overwork.
that you can DIRECTLY CONTROL the wyvern and his attacks.. maybe let him have his own skill attacks besides breath attack. combine it with your own skill attacks.

Large scale pvp isn't nice and sweet as oppose to 1v1. As soon as your wyvern pet dies, there goes a large percentage of your abilities with it. What I'm trying to say is, it is an unnecessary compromise holding the Dragoon back if something like that happens in pvp or pve, and when it does happens you're only at 50% of your full potential.

It is game breaking to have a strong DD with a strong pet as well.

[Tonkra]

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[Cichy]

for example you can see in videos like these, that even in FFXI drg wasnt a bad Damage dealer, but it was the FFXI community like here.. who didnt like petclasses.

You can show all the little PVP videos you want, DRG was bad because of numerous flaws and terrible balancing not because people dint like pet jobs.

[Tonkra]

You can show all the little PVP videos you want, DRG was bad because of numerous flaws and terrible balancing not because people dint like pet jobs.

well ok and thats the reason why it cant be made MUCH better in FF14? ;S
(well besides looking at the damage in comparison to the sam, i dont see why you cant compare it. oh i forgot its a pvp vid .. so jobs in pvp did other damage than in pvm)

Large scale pvp isn't nice and sweet as oppose to 1v1. As soon as your wyvern pet dies, there goes a large percentage of your abilities with it. What I'm trying to say is, it is an unnecessary compromise holding the Dragoon back if something like that happens in pvp or pve, and when it does happens you're only at 50% of your full potential.

It is game breaking to have a strong DD with a strong pet as well.

you still are discussing in terms of the OLD system like it was in FF11 from 2003

as i said.. you can arrange recast timers to call your wyvern back in an other way than in FF11.. of about 1 minute or so (as an example)... but -after- calling your wyvern back with a whistle. he takes about 15 secs to fly back to his owner. so it isnt that about anymore the drg being useless till the end of the fight, he loses shortly the damage of the pet, because he didnt took that much attention onto the pet (because in my suggestions the drg has the abillity to cure his pet on his own)

also consider giving the drg a cure/reggen spell for his pet which the drg in FF11 hasnt.

and in FF11 a pet or wyvern was NOT effected by group heals/buffs, nor you could cure it really. the system was way too old fashioned so you comparing the disadvantages of that old fashioned FF11 system in mind. and thats the point.

it could be also be an advantage to transfer pain to your pet for a time (like other petclasses have in other MMOs), or sacrificing it to receive health back (in dangerous situations) and a stat buff as well. these are not completely skills invented by me.. those skills i have seen in 10 years of playing MMorpgs and different classes.

beastmaster and wyvern have been a bit gimpy because the system in FF11 wasnt that all good about. you had no real control over your pet. and the pets e.g. the wyvern hadnt that many different attacks... let SE add skills like (Bite, Dragon claw) etc. to him. but i think with the new UI in 2.0. there is hope for that. to control pets like you do in AION or WoW... as an example...

giving them own abillities, which you can command them any time. etc pp.
but please do not argue again "but in ff11..." no this is not. this is FF14 and we are in year 2011.



i just cant see the point that for FFXIV, the only MMorpg, it should be unable to create a petclass that works and is not gimped. why should it be the only one? each class needs to be balanced.. wether pet or non-pet class.

my last 2 cents to this topic in this thread (because i opened an own one concerning pet systems in FF14) i'd be glad to see your suggestions in there

[Cichy]

You cant compare it because SAM had way higher damage output. Could WS more often. Did not depend on hitting mobs for TP. Had powerful single hit WS's modified by str. Every endgame ls would take an average geared SAM who knew what he was doing vs. the best DRG.