Veteran rewards....

[Niwashi]

Self-contradictions are silly.

Exactly.

have the sort of shop be more like "Oh, you've reached this many achievement points. Here, have any of these now-available certificates to trade in for the thing you want."

What it sounds like, to me, is we have to spend our achievement points to get the missing rewards we want.

players will be able to use their achievement points to purchase achievement certificates by speaking with Jonathas... Certificates can then be used to purchase rewards of your choosing.

You get certificates that you can then trade in for the things you want. And that's exactly the way you said you wanted it to work. Where's the confusion in that?

[Aster_E]

Exactly.





You get certificates that you can then trade in for the things you want. And that's exactly the way you said you wanted it to work. Where's the confusion in that?

No, it's not.

What I said I wanted:

"You have achieved a fine status with all of these trophies. Here, have this thing at no cost to you."

The thing it looks like we're getting:

"These are some nice trophies you're getting. Remember that thing you were getting for free anyways in a couple months? It's going to cost you some of those trophies instead."

If anyone here is confused, it's you.

[Niwashi]

What I said I wanted:

"You have achieved a fine status with all of these trophies. Here, have this thing at no cost to you."

The thing it looks like we're getting:

"These are some nice trophies you're getting. Remember that thing you were getting for free anyways in a couple months? It's going to cost you some of those trophies instead."

It's not costing any trophies. This doesn't make any change to those. But besides any direct achievement rewards (like we get now), you'll also be getting certificates based on the number of (up to now useless) points you get for achievements. Then you can take those certificates and get your choice of rewards for them.

I don't know what sort of thresholds we need to meet to earn those certificates, but the basic pattern described in the announcement is exactly what you were asking for.

[Aster_E]

It's not costing any trophies. This doesn't make any change to those. But besides any direct achievement rewards (like we get now), you'll also be getting certificates based on the number of (up to now useless) points you get for achievements. Then you can take those certificates and get your choice of rewards for them.

Then that's not really spending, is it?

[Niwashi]

Then that's not really spending, is it?

It's not spending anything that you can get now, though it's adding something new that you can spend.

[Aster_E]

It's not spending anything that you can get now, though it's adding something new that you can spend.

Then you're missing the point. I'm not talking about spending the certificates, at all.

Again, I was referring to HOW to get those certificates, and the way the wording has been used to describe it. The way it describes the process is that we spend our achievement points, with some little room for interpretation for not spending them in order to get the certificates. My original post, and what I have been saying all along, is that I am hoping that instead the game looks at what we have and just hands us those items, even if it's the certificate for that item we have to redeem elsewhere for that item (which is another subject I don't even want to get into here).

Meanwhile, you word your counter arguments in a way that contradict your previous counter-arguments. That's something I generally only see in forums by a user just trying to troll others, only to end up looking like a moron in the process. I don't know you, but I get the sneaking suspicion you're not a moron, even if this whole argument we're having is mindblowingly stupid. So are you still having a problem with what I'm trying to say here, or are you only here attempting to troll others because that's your primary source of entertainment? I'm trying to work with you here so you understand the basic concepts of what in blazes I'm even talking about, which, one last time, is about the acquisition of the items (or certificates) using our numerous achievement points that have been there for show since before this game even used them (versus simply getting these things for meeting requirements)? If you're just going to blow off my explanations with more unnecessary tomfoolery, then that too would be nice to know.

[Niwashi]

I was referring to HOW to get those certificates, and the way the wording has been used to describe it. The way it describes the process is that we spend our achievement points, with some little room for interpretation for not spending them in order to get the certificates. My original post, and what I have been saying all along, is that I am hoping that instead the game looks at what we have and just hands us those items, even if it's the certificate for that item we have to redeem elsewhere for that item (which is another subject I don't even want to get into here).

So is your whole issue really just about the difference between (using bogus example numbers):

A) When you pass a threshold of 500 points you're given a certificate. When you pass a threshold of 1000 points you're given another certificate. When you pass a threshold of 1500 points you're given another certificate. And so on at each 500 point interval.

B) Whenever you have more than 500 points, you can trade those points for a certificate.

But those two are functionally identical. Either way, earning 1000 points gets you two certificates, or earning 2000 points gets you four certificates, and so on. They're the exact same thing. You had talked earlier about it costing you something that we're getting now, and it's not. Currently we get nothing. Soon we'll be getting achievement certificates (and then, in turn, gear/mounts/minions).

You mentioned getting the achievement certificates would cost you trophies, but those have nothing to do with points. There are things you can get for various individual achievements, but none that pertain to how many points you have.

(At least none of the current trophies have anything to do with points. If SE is going with pattern "A", though, they'd likely do it by just adding a new series of achievements for amassing points, with a reward for reaching each threshold along the way. It would have the advantage that giving out the certificates would then match what Jonathas already does now, which might be simpler at their end compared to adding a trade in function.)

Meanwhile, you word your counter arguments in a way that contradict your previous counter-arguments.

No, nothing I've said has contradicted anything else I've said. If you think it did, that just means that you misconstrued what I was saying at some point, though I really don't see how you could have. If you'd let me know what it was you didn't understand, I could try to make it clearer.

[Aster_E]

You mentioned getting the achievement certificates would cost you trophies, but those have nothing to do with points. There are things you can get for various individual achievements, but none that pertain to how many points you have.

Yes, those are rewards for specific achievements, such as the three Garo mounts for winning PVP so many times with a related title on, the Parade Chocobo for reaching a few thousand commendations on that character, or any of the hideous crowns (I've yet to see anyone wear, btw) that come with getting current combat classes/jobs all to the level cap (one at 50, 60 and 70 each). On a side note, you go to the same NPC and get the item, instead of a certificate to go get the item. No one's arguing against this that I can see. This actually has little, if anything, to do with what we're talking about here.

So is your whole issue really just about the difference between (using bogus example numbers):

A) When you pass a threshold of 500 points you're given a certificate. When you pass a threshold of 1000 points you're given another certificate. When you pass a threshold of 1500 points you're given another certificate. And so on at each 500 point interval.

B) Whenever you have more than 500 points, you can trade those points for a certificate.

But those two are functionally identical. Either way, earning 1000 points gets you two certificates, or earning 2000 points gets you four certificates, and so on. They're the exact same thing. You had talked earlier about it costing you something that we're getting now, and it's not. Currently we get nothing. Soon we'll be getting achievement certificates (and then, in turn, gear/mounts/minions).

I either know a good deal of people, or know OF a great many more, who could tell you otherwise if they bothered with the forums. These are not functionally the same.

One just requires and rewards you with the item, albeit with the extra step of the certificate you will be handed. This method allows achievement hunters to keep their points--hence the similarity I drew to trophies earlier--and show them off via linkshells or XIVDB (or possibly other means). There's no real choice to make here other than whether or not to go to Gridania so they can get their things, still for free (certificates/vouchers not really counted as a currency). Going back into random numbers, SE would estimate how many points a character might have on average in a span of one to three months, so let's say having 6000 points grants you a Firion minion (currently 960 day), or 150 for the Wind-up Cursor (currently 30-day).

The other looks at your points like a currency, and those same hunters would be left with the choice between the items they're missing or keeping their points that, I'm sure, so many common players simply don't care about, but THEY do. If they choose to keep the points then they miss out on those things that were once free and coming to them before this change came along, because the items become no longer free if the points become a currency. This way, you might spend 150 points you'll never see again on that same Wind-up Cursor, or a few thousand on the Firion minion.

Not. Functionally. Similar. If you want to compare the two then you might as well do the same between a stationary exercise bike, that's hooked up to a quality, gas-powered electric generator, and a motorcycle that is leaking fuel. Or, compare a plastic slice of apple pie, that is only there for display purposes, versus a homemade apple pie. They work differently, I guarantee it.

No, nothing I've said has contradicted anything else I've said. If you think it did, that just means that you misconstrued what I was saying at some point, though I really don't see how you could have. If you'd let me know what it was you didn't understand, I could try to make it clearer.

Oh no?

*Looks through your posts in this topic and sees the specific use of "certificates" (where we trade them in) in just about every one that she didn't see there before*

Curious. Then why in the Ascians' unwashed undies did you deem it necessary to keep arguing rather than simply point out, from the start, that I might have been missing that one detail? I normally don't miss this sort of thing. On the other hand, I have been pointing out through this whole thread that I have been talking about the wording that SE has chosen for how these purchases are handled, and you chose to practically jump in place shouting "Yes, we are getting certificates just like you're suggesting!" with no proof that we're going the requisite route instead of the currency one.

Why, in the unspoken hells of Titan's butt crack after a taco Tuesday, did you try pounding that one point home, about us trading in certificates, when my concern and expression were in regards to how we get those certificates? See, because you were so adamant about something I wasn't even talking about at the get-go, regardless of whether your usage of certificate was there the whole time or not (and I'm not doubting that it was, btw, but only how odd it is that I would have missed that one minute detail), we ended up in this stupid argument that got us nowhere fast when all that would have sufficed was that you ask for a little clarity in regards to what my concern was about. If it actually does turn out that we're going the requisite route, then that would be great news.

What other tiny things do you try driving home that only leaves people feeling unhappy?

.

Now that we are finally back to where we started, here is what I desire in regards to the Vet Reward changes:

1) Better timing so in a couple months I would get the Firion minion and not have to spend any tangible for it.
1b) Or, at least, have the sort of shop be more like "Oh, you've reached this many achievement points. Here, have any of these now-available certificates to trade in for the thing you want." Better than that WOULD be to just get the items directly, like to you with most Vet Rewards already, save for the swimsuit tokens, but I can accept walking to the right NPC the next time I'm in the neighborhood, which can be quite often. Please, SE, don't go turning things into currencies that have no right being turned into currencies.
2) The ability to return or delete unwanted items in my mail, so I can turn down the outfits I'm about to get and do not want, rather than HAVING to accept the items to make room for crafting requests I get, HAVING to go through inventory or armory, and then deleting the unwanted items that way along with HAVING to select through the extra "Are you sure?" prompt every single time (or even HAVING to walk to the Armoire to dump it all in there and try to forget I had that stuff in hand).

[Aniya_Estlihn]

"These are some nice trophies you're getting. Remember that thing you were getting for free anyways in a couple months? It's going to cost you some of those trophies instead."

If anyone here is confused, it's you.

Going to single this out for a brief second, but you do realize that none of what you were getting was free, right? Veteran Rewards were never free and they never will be, they were tied to subscription time which is something you paid for with real money. That means none of what you received as ever free, and did in fact have a monetary value.

[Aster_E]

Going to single this out for a brief second, but you do realize that none of what you were getting was free, right? Veteran Rewards were never free and they never will be, they were tied to subscription time which is something you paid for with real money. That means none of what you received as ever free, and did in fact have a monetary value.

Incorrect. You're paying real money for your subscription, and the Vet Rewards were both a bonus and an incentive at no extra cost. You're not paying for those items with game time applied as a free bonus, nor did the subscription include the items in its pricing or else we would officially be getting gypped the moment patch goes live and the full sub price goes to the sub and sub alone.

It's like if ever ever do business buying from somewhere, and they throw in a bonus item at no cost to you. The only real reason you might be thinking you're paying for that small item you may or may not care for is to justify the pricetag on all that you're actually setting out to buy when, in fact, you're just buying everything but the bonus item.