Primals - A Discussion on Ethics & Philosophy (ARR & HW Spoilers)

[CaesarCV]

We know that Shinryu will still try to temper people at the least. He clearly attempts it on both the Warrior of Light and Zenos, although it has no effect on them given that they both have the echo, whether real or artificial. As for why Shinryu's a dragon...if we're going to be honest it was a little forced. I honestly thought that it was going to be a primal version of Rhalgr, but it seems they went for a surprise/FFV reference instead. There are a few explanations such as it being created using Nidhogg's aether and Ilberd not caring about what it would look like, but in the end it could have used some better foreshadowing. But getting back on topic, since there's no evidence of Shinryu successfully tempering anyone and the fact that it was bound, it's safe to assume it never did.

[YianKutku]

As for why Shinryu's a dragon...if we're going to be honest it was a little forced.

I complained about this before, yeah. I always wondered why Shinryu looked the way it did specifically, from a Watsonian perspective (since we all know the Doylist answer is "because FFV").

The stock answer is that Ilberd wanted a Primal powerful enough to rival Bahamut, but Shinryu looks nothing like Bahamut, and indeed looks very little like any other well-known dragons. (The closest to the worm-like shape is probably the Falak.)

There are a few explanations such as it being created using Nidhogg's aether and Ilberd not caring about what it would look like, but in the end it could have used some better foreshadowing.

To be honest, before the reveal of Shinryu and when people were looking for an alternative to "Ilberd summoned Rhalgr", I was half-expecting that since the Primal was made from Nidhogg's aether and there was a large possibility that Ilberd wanted something draconic, we'd have to contend with a Primal version of Nidhogg. Again.

[Theodric]

It's a bit of a stretch, but if you look at the dark swirling aether coming off of all of the bodies around the time that Ilberd summons Shinryu in the first place you see it drifting off of both Ala Mhigan and Garlean corpses. Perhaps that can explain why it became 'Shinryu' instead of a warped avatar of Rhalgr? Ilberd didn't summon it alone, after all. He may have orchestrated the events to do so and played the primary role in it all but he still needed sacrifices to succeed and he apparently wasn't very discriminatory as to which sacrifices he used for aether.

[sciencebot]

I complained about this before, yeah. I always wondered why Shinryu looked the way it did specifically, from a Watsonian perspective (since we all know the Doylist answer is "because FFV").

The stock answer is that Ilberd wanted a Primal powerful enough to rival Bahamut, but Shinryu looks nothing like Bahamut, and indeed looks very little like any other well-known dragons. (The closest to the worm-like shape is probably the Falak.)

Long and spiky, two giant wings, generally worm-shaped, especially good at smashing up Garlean things -- he looks a lot like what I'd imagine you'd get if you tried to hate-summon a dragon based on Midgardsormr with your dying breath, to my eye. And if you want a world-shaking calamity, it's hard to do better than Bahamut's dad. I wouldn't be surprised if the Shinryu myth was based on Middy in some way, since he's tied into Omega too.

[Mysterysword]

To be honest, before the reveal of Shinryu and when people were looking for an alternative to "Ilberd summoned Rhalgr", I was half-expecting that since the Primal was made from Nidhogg's aether and there was a large possibility that Ilberd wanted something draconic, we'd have to contend with a Primal version of Nidhogg. Again.

Last year, before the lorebook stomped all over my theory, I thought that Shinryu would be one of the two then-unnamed First Brood dragons. Having the Shinryu/Omega fight shoehorned into 3.55 came out as meh for me, if only because it was yet another bit of awkward writing in a patch cycle that was absolutely full of poor writing and plotting. I'm honestly still annoyed at how we went from 3.3, which was fun and great, to the disjointed, poorly-paced 3.4 and 3.5, especially when I compare it to the 2.0 patch cycle and how much better that was at leading up to 3.0.

[Cilia]

It is indeed rather heavily implied that Shinryu is a bastardization of Midgardsormr. Middy is said to share the epic rivalry with Omega usually reserved for Shinryu... and the reason for Shinryu being draconic is that Ilberd wanted something even more destructive than Bahamut. The only thing that would really fit the bill is Middy... or a bastardization of him, which he himself refers to as a "vile simulacrum."