I don't understand the point of the various tank/dps stances for tanks

[Shinkyo]

All I see is skilled players losing an ability because they're too skilled to have as many options at their disposal..

This is not what is happening.
Skilled players are trading an ability (defiance) for a more usefull one to them (Deliverance). We aren’t losing anything, on the contrary, we are gaining in the form of DPS.

As we learn a fight, we’ll go from Full tank stance -> Stance dancing -> Full DPS stance.
You make is sound like Tank stance is a noob ability. It’s not, Tank stance is valuable to everybody; it just has diminishing returns the more you gear up and optimize the fight. Raiders are just much quicker are reaching the diminishing return breakpoint through their overall team performance

[zipzo]

This is not what is happening.
Skilled players are trading an ability (defiance) for a more usefull one to them (Deliverance). We aren’t losing anything, on the contrary, we are gaining in the form of DPS.

As we learn a fight, we’ll go from Full tank stance -> Stance dancing -> Full DPS stance.
You make is sound like Tank stance is a noob ability. It’s not, Tank stance is valuable to everybody; it just has diminishing returns the more you gear up and optimize the fight. Raiders are just much quicker are reaching the diminishing return breakpoint through their overall team performance

No trading for DRK...Darkside can be applied whether Grit is on or not. Easy mode stance.

"Trading" is still a veiled way of saying "1 out of these 2 abilities becomes useless no matter what".

I want all abilities to be useful, at any skill bracket. There's no circumstance where both remain optimally useful simultaneously. That is the problem.

Why is it you hate the idea of tanking being more interesting or possessing a more diverse toolset? The first step to achieving this is cutting the fat.

[Sarcatica]

No trading for DRK...Darkside can be applied whether Grit is on or not. Easy mode stance.

"Trading" is still a veiled way of saying "1 out of these 2 abilities becomes useless no matter what".

I want all abilities to be useful, at any skill bracket. There's no circumstance where both remain optimally useful simultaneously. That is the problem.

Why is it you hate the idea of tanking being more interesting or possessing a more diverse toolset? The first step to achieving this is cutting the fat.

Shirk needs to be reworked for this to happen. Or maybe even removed. It trivializes enmity generation skills.

[Shinkyo]

Why is it you hate the idea of tanking being more interesting or possessing a more diverse toolset? The first step to achieving this is cutting the fat.

Because you're presenting a subjective issue (that's just not shared by everyone) with no concrete example of what could be changed to make the job more interesting (by your standard) and without hurting low/high skill balance.

Managing the conflicting priorities between mitigation and dps is interesting and engaging to me. It ain't perfect because it's currently too easy to reach the diminishing return breakpoint but the concept itself isn't bad.
That's not to say other designs can't be better but bring exemples/ideas to the table so we can have an open discussion.

[Lyth]

No trading for DRK...Darkside can be applied whether Grit is on or not. Easy mode stance.

Darkside is the equivalent of Storm's Eye. I think you'll have a much better understanding of how tank stance works once you level DRK (or for that matter any tank) to 70.

[Jim_Berry]

So far the way it feels now (just kickin' around, since coming back, leveling in Stormblood), tank stance is irrelevant and unnecessary for anything other than a sort of arbitrary difficulty switch you can either turn on (to make it easier) or turn off (to make it only slightly "harder").

I not dps-savvy on my tanks, but I WILL say this:

You must not know DRK that well, because our strongest potency attack (at 650) comes from being in Grit + Dark Arts (it's name is Bloodspiller).

[zipzo]

Because you're presenting a subjective issue (that's just not shared by everyone) with no concrete example of what could be changed to make the job more interesting (by your standard) and without hurting low/high skill balance.

Managing the conflicting priorities between mitigation and dps is interesting and engaging to me. It ain't perfect because it's currently too easy to reach the diminishing return breakpoint but the concept itself isn't bad.
That's not to say other designs can't be better but bring exemples/ideas to the table so we can have an open discussion.

...

I literally did. I outright declared exactly what I think should happen. Remove the stances and replace them with a more interesting enmity rotation that boils down to something more than a 1-2-3 cycle that makes DPS class rotations look like rocket science in comparison. I’m not sure if your reading comprehension needs work or what, but I literally opened this post with my “ideas”.

Darkside is the equivalent of Storm's Eye. I think you'll have a much better understanding of how tank stance works once you level DRK (or for that matter any tank) to 70.

It doesn’t take a college degree and 3 years experience playing lvl 70 FFXIV to comprehend ability descriptions and observe how they work and interact with one another. FFXIV is a long way down a long list of MMOs I’ve played (mostly as a tank), so you can throw ad hom fallacies all you want, doesn’t change that the stances are essentially a waste of abilities in their current form.

I not dps-savvy on my tanks, but I WILL say this:

You must not know DRK that well, because our strongest potency attack (at 650) comes from being in Grit + Dark Arts (it's name is Bloodspiller).

I do know that. What’s your point?

[MauvaisOeil]

I not dps-savvy on my tanks, but I WILL say this:

You must not know DRK that well, because our strongest potency attack (at 650) comes from being in Grit + Dark Arts (it's name is Bloodspiller).

The biggest misunderstood tooltip ever.

[Freyyy]

I not dps-savvy on my tanks, but I WILL say this:

You must not know DRK that well, because our strongest potency attack (at 650) comes from being in Grit + Dark Arts (it's name is Bloodspiller).

Bloodspiller is still stronger out of Grit tho. You have all the necessary numbers to understand that in the Bloodspiller and the Grit tooltip. This is very simple math.

[Felorr]

Bloodspiller is still stronger out of Grit tho. You have all the necessary numbers to understand that in the Bloodspiller and the Grit tooltip. This is very simple math.

Upheavel hits harder with more HP, I should switch to defiance for every upheaval right? /s