If DRG could have a wyvern and high DPS

[NadienKirisame]

If you take both abilities into consideration that depends on two things, how strong are the boosts going to be and are you going to make both abilities boost multiple party members? By knowing that information it needs to be balanced.

If you are going to make Drg as strong as for example mnk and in addition give them advantages over the dragons then you need to give mnk advantages in other situations. Are you going to compromise their efficiency in general settings as DDs just so that they can be super effeicient against dragon types of mobs?

If these dragon skills are weak and are overshadowed by other abilities and magic spells, then doesn't that ruin their status as dragon experts/slayers? Wouldn't it then just be a visual gimmick with some story relevance?

I would say that these things worked wonders in the single player Final Fantasy games, but here there are a lot more factors that they need to bear in mind to keep everything on level in all situations. I think that this is what developers realized in FFXI and they decided that by at least giving dragoon a wyvern there was some sort of relevance, because I can't say that Drg was preferable over say drk when it came to Tiamaat or Nidhogg and the holy circle didn't exactly give it bragging rights either.

The thing is though MNK and WAR are not really based around a mythical creature and DRG is since Dragoon is Dragon Knight... I guess if you wished for MNK since they are a martial arts master and such they could have some slight advantage over human type mobs... but then that gives MNK a very large base of mobs and unless there are a lot of dragon type mobs it wouldn't sit well. The abilities wouldn't really give too much of and advantage and I wouldn't put them as stack able.. it would just say be something where someone thinks hey we are going to fight this dragon today lets get a DRG to help out.

Though I still think with the traditional and trademark DRG abilities/items and adding in the not so common DRG abilities of using the power of dragon souls in themselves to do draconic type attacks such as breath attacks and such it would make DRG stand out enough...

Also balance can be worked out on any abilities and such as it goes... my thoughts are lets think of abilities and such that might make either side of the groups say hmmm yeah that would work or sure if the wyvern was like so and such. Though really I know its pretty much pointless most humans do not change the way they thing... the no wyvern people will keep saying no and the wyvern people will keep saying yes.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Andrien]

If you are going to make Drg as strong as for example mnk and in addition give them advantages over the dragons then you need to give mnk advantages in other situations. Are you going to compromise the dragoons efficiency in general settings as DDs just so that they can be super efficient against dragon types of mobs? That would result in a nerf.

Oh my goodness. Counter, Martial Arts, Subtle Blow, Kick. All these and much more defines a MNK. Dragoon should excel against Dragons..

If these dragon specific skills from dragoon are weak and are overshadowed by other abilities and magic spells, then doesn't that ruin their status as dragon experts/slayers? Wouldn't it then just be a visual gimmick with some story relevance?

No one can predict that. We don't know what the devs are planning. Are you assuming abilities like Jump is going to be weak?

I would say that these things worked wonders in the single player Final Fantasy games, but here there are a lot more factors that they need to bear in mind to keep everything on level in all situations. I think that this is what developers realized in FFXI and they decided that by at least giving dragoon a wyvern there was some sort of relevance, because I can't say that Drg was preferable over say drk when it came to Tiamaat or Nidhogg and the holy circle didn't exactly give it bragging rights either.

Basically you're saying just toss in a pet wyvern and it'll make a difference.. I'm going to copy what someone said. "think outside the box."

[NadienKirisame]

Oh my goodness. Counter, Martial Arts, Subtle Blow, Kick. All these and much more defines a MNK. Dragoon should excel against Dragons..



No one can predict that. We don't know what the devs are planning. Are you assuming abilities like Jump is going to be weak?



Basically you're saying just toss in a pet wyvern and it'll make a difference.. I'm going to copy what someone said. "think outside the box."

No no no I think you are looking at it in the wrong way... read my post above. What Reliquia is talking about is that if DRG being a DD gets to have an advantage over dragons then MNK being another DD should have situational advantage over a different type of mob as well to balance it out in a way.

By the dragon abilities I believe Reliquia is referring to the dragon breath and other such abilities not the trademark and traditional ability of JUMP.

And no I do not think Reliquia is saying just toss in a wyvern and it makes it all better... What is being said is have the DRG with the DRG abilities like jump and such and the wyvern pet that does some of the other abilities like the breath attacks and such...

Please do not get confused and just attack... we have been getting some good thoughts out and such and I would like to try and keep it going. Maybe we can find a better way... or the Dev team will go with what they wanted and then ask us later do you really want this or that... who knows but please do not just attack, thanks.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Andrien]

No no no I think you are looking at it in the wrong way... read my post above. What Reliquia is talking about is that if DRG being a DD gets to have an advantage over dragons then MNK being another DD should have situational advantage over a different type of mob as well to balance it out in a way.

By the dragon abilities I believe Reliquia is referring to the dragon breath and other such abilities not the trademark and traditional ability of JUMP.

And no I do not think Reliquia is saying just toss in a wyvern and it makes it all better... What is being said is have the DRG with the DRG abilities like jump and such and the wyvern pet that does some of the other abilities like the breath attacks and such...

Please do not get confused and just attack... we have been getting some good thoughts out and such and I would like to try and keep it going. Maybe we can find a better way... or the Dev team will go with what they wanted and then ask us later do you really want this or that... who knows but please do not just attack, thanks.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

I appreciate the clarification. I would assume people would prefer the traditional Monk.

[Reliquia]

Oh my goodness. Counter, Martial Arts, Subtle Blow, Kick. All these and much more defines a MNK. Dragoon should excel against Dragons..

Yeah except the mnk traits would work against all mobs and dragoon would have dragon specific traits, I wasn't asking what defines a mnk, I am asking how are you going to balancing it.

No one can predict that. We don't know what the devs are planning. Are you assuming abilities like Jump is going to be weak?

Did you even read my post? I never said anything about Jump, that doesn't need to be an ability that is reserved against dragoons only. I was saying that if dragoon has abilities that give them advantages over dragons (like holy circle and dragon slayer) then they need to be balanced accordingly to how strong these boosts are, and that the way I see it, both end up in a pickle. By strong boosts against dragons I see balancing issues (the unnecessary kind that will give the devs headaches for years to come) and by weak boosts and same efficiency as other jobs I don't see the relevance with dragoons. (Other than the story and their obsessive lifestyle, looking and behaving like them)

Basically you're saying just toss in a pet wyvern and it'll make a difference.. I'm going to copy what someone said. "think outside the box."

Actually in that post I wasn't advocating for wyvern, but I do think that by adding a wyvern the job dragoon in FFXI was at least dragon relevant.


EDIT. I see someone clarified this, thanks. Sleepy time now.

[NadienKirisame]

I appreciate the clarification. I would assume people would prefer the traditional Monk.

Yes one could say most love to go back to traditional and trademark abilities/items for all the jobs based on the characters from past FF games that they played for hours/days (self note played the first Final Fantasy for 2 days without stopping) on end and loved that character type the most.

I just wish I could find a way to put out ideas for DRG that would get both sides thoughts and ideas on and if maybe it would get both sides to sort of try and find a middle group with which to see this job the way we all love it ^^

The cat is amused =^.^=

[Seirra_Lanzce]

The wyvern has a place in ffxiv and it's at the pointy end of my lance.

fix'ed that for you

[Esk]

None of these guys had wyverns...just because that's how the class was used in XI does not mean that Dragoon should necessarily be a pet class in XIV.

I really want FIV to have a freya style DRG the more I think about it.
An her armour would be perfect for a lala DRG tbh

I just wish I could find a way to put out ideas for DRG that would get both sides thoughts and ideas on and if maybe it would get both sides to sort of try and find a middle group with which to see this job the way we all love it ^^

The cat is amused =^.^=

I think the problem is that some people fundamentally just want DRG to be a Pet class, and a large number don't. I'd have loved to get DRG on XI an primarily for the wyvern the class looked amazing with it.
But just for me the more traditional DRG is what I want to see in XIV, wyvern's have no place in the lore here.

Though I love some of the ideas coming out now about class traits in this tread.

[Tonkra]

all these kain and freya fanboys... damn it that SE remaked that titles... maybe we havent that question then, now.

None of these guys had wyverns...just because that's how the class was used in XI does not mean that Dragoon should necessarily be a pet class in XIV.

"Because none of these guys had wyverns, does not mean that Dragoon should necessarily be not a damage dealer pet fighter class in XIV." blabla

[Krausus]

all these kain and freya fanboys... damn it that SE remaked that titles... maybe we havent that question then, now.




"Because none of these guys had wyverns, does not mean that Dragoon should necessarily be not a damage dealer pet fighter class in XIV." blabla

no but the majority of players not wanting dragoon to be a pet class does