May I present, "LMG - Light Machinist Guide for PvP"

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Okay, you're right.

I mean, you're NOT right, but if you simply must be right, you're right.

(P.S. Please never tell people to pre-load in the Feast. That's even worse.)

[Geryth]

(P.S. Please never tell people to pre-load in the Feast. That's even worse.)

Why? The damage is the same, maybe a bit better, if you pre-load bullets into hot shot (not talking about using stun gun). The difference in damage is negligible.

Okay, you're right.

I mean, you're NOT right, but if you simply must be right, you're right.

I might not be! See, that's the thing about being a mortal human being. Mistakes are made. My numbers aren't perfect. If I'm not right, then I'm not and I'm willing to follow the best data. You can say I'm wrong all you want, and believe it with every ounce of your "experience" but until someone pulls data to show otherwise, I'm going to go with the best information we have.

[Mofafafa]

Why? The damage is the same, maybe a bit better, if you pre-load bullets into hot shot (not talking about using stun gun). The difference in damage is negligible.

Try to imagine during midfight, when your stun gun is down and you're ready to reapply gauss barrel. Pre-load ammo is always inefficient to get kills, such as in Frontline, you're just delaying yourself 5 GCD to start doing real damage. *ammo provides GCD buff to 1.5s* which makes you having to use 4.5s + 4.6s to starts doing real damage.
Stun Gun save you and your teammates, also helped secure kills.
Also in start of a Feast game, you can apply hotshot to build gauge from chest / enemy easily.

If you believe your theory is to be one of the best in Feast, then we are all welcome for it.

[Geryth]

Try to imagine during midfight, when your stun gun is down and you're ready to reapply gauss barrel.
Stun Gun save you and your teammates, also helped secure kills.

Why? The damage is the same, maybe a bit better, if you pre-load bullets into hot shot (not talking about using stun gun). The difference in damage is negligible.

Also in start of a Feast game, you can apply hotshot to build gauge from chest / enemy easily.

If you believe your theory is to be one of the best in Feast, then we are all welcome for it.

It's not theory, I put up numbers complete with damage logs showing that the damage is the same, if not a bit better, to start off pre-loading ammo. Feel free to do the same, and demonstrate why it's not a good idea to start off pre-loading ammo. Maybe my rotation is bad, and a better rotation can make a clear difference. Exactly what I did is in the logs. If it can be objectively demonstrated that pre-loading ammo is indeed a loss of damage, then that's the strategy I'll employ.

[Nova_Rox]

Why? The damage is the same, maybe a bit better, if you pre-load bullets into hot shot (not talking about using stun gun). The difference in damage is negligible.

Because feast is about BURST and well timed CC. Popping part of your burst in the beginning is a TERRIBLE idea and your burst will now be on CD while your melee tries his. Have you tried solo bursting a good player? With a healer healing? It isn't going to happen.

I think the biggest "issue" here is ego. Lace is talking about ranked Feast and he's right, don't pop Stun Gun early, and everyone else is talking Frontline.

Frontline = almost anything works because, well, it attracts people that are new to PvP or don't PvP in general.

Feast = popping Stun Gun early means you may have just cost the game. Yes, it's that serious at higher rank play.

I will say that if I was going solely based off of this thread I would NOT listen to Lace. He has been shown hard numbers and has not shown his own to prove his side is correct, he has also been, to put it bluntly, coming off salty af in his replies.


Lace:
If you want to REALLY help new players then I'd work on your response to criticism. When you put yourself out there it will happen.

Geryth:
I understand your reasoning for your thinking in FRONTLINE but The Feast is a completely different beast. There, experience DOES play a huge factor and starting with Stun Gun is not going to net you a kill.

[Geryth]

Because feast is about BURST and well timed CC. Popping part of your burst in the beginning is a TERRIBLE idea and your burst will now be on CD while your melee tries his. Have you tried solo bursting a good player? With a healer healing? It isn't going to happen.

I think the biggest "issue" here is ego. Lace is talking about ranked Feast and he's right, don't pop Stun Gun early, and everyone else is talking Frontline.

95% of this thread has been about shatter frontlines. I made that one single comment in one single post about feast in response to Lace's single comment about feast.

Feast = popping Stun Gun early means you may have just cost the game. Yes, it's that serious at higher rank play.

Not one time did I advocate popping stun gun at the start of a feast game. I'm talking purely to Lace's vehement "dont ever pre-load ammo". Pre-loading ammo is not a DPS loss - you're not even using cooldowns or using burst or anything like that, you're literally just offsetting about 500-750 damage into the first 5 seconds instead of around 8 seconds and by 10 seconds, 10 mere seconds, both methods have done the same amount of damage and are now doing the exact same rotation to keep a heat dance. There is literally no difference in damage or even basic strategy when using pre-loaded ammo.

I will say that if I was going solely based off of this thread I would NOT listen to Lace. He has been shown hard numbers and has not shown his own to prove his side is correct, he has also been, to put it bluntly, coming off salty af in his replies.

He just believes too firmly in his anecdotal experience. He's been around playing MCH a long time, he's been playing PvP a long time, and he's a wealth of knowledge and experience. I don't discount that - it means something which is why, despite my personal experience getting great performance out of pre-loading ammo, I decided to give his advice a firm try. I believed in his experience too. So much that I actually thought pre-loading ammo in any situation other than bursting a conestable ice in shatter was otherwise a bad idea. My testing has proved otherwise. I don't know why he isn't willing to see what the numbers show, or at least do his own testing.

Geryth:
I understand your reasoning for your thinking in FRONTLINE but The Feast is a completely different beast. There, experience DOES play a huge factor and starting with Stun Gun is not going to net you a kill.

Pre-loading ammo in feast is perfectly fine. Using stun gun for damage is not. I never said otherwise.

Lastly - thanks for the reply. I felt like I was going crazy for a bit when no one was acknowledging that the numbers show that pre-loading ammo is a perfectly okay thing to do.