Minimum Ilvl Roulette

[ItaruKarin]

I think that'd be great. My friends aren't really into the "minimum ilvl" stuff, but I'd love to be able to do more content the way they were initially designed.

[Zojha]

My friends aren't really into the "minimum ilvl" stuff, but I'd love to be able to do more content the way they were initially designed.

Ironically, the devs have once stated that the item level they assume during the development of content is different than the minimum item level to enter it and from context it can be derived that they design it with a higher item level in mind than is needed to enter.

As for minimum item level roulette, honestly, I don't see it taking off unless you pump it full of rewards. Right now, it offers the same rewards as doing the content via DF/RF or unsynced, which means reward incentives cancel out and people can pick which way they do it purely by preference - with just about anyone and their mother preferring the easy way. Unless the rewards are strong enough to cancel out that preference, the roulette would be just as dead as any PF you put up for it.

[Ghishlain]

Ironically, the devs have once stated that the item level they assume during the development of content is different than the minimum item level to enter it and from context it can be derived that they design it with a higher item level in mind than is needed to enter.

I recall them mentioning about two years ago that they determined a DPS check based on assumed ilvl and then lower it by a nominal amount of 10% to 15%. I don't ever recall them stating that that min ilvl is below the developed ilvl they assumed for. Do you have a quote / URL for this? I'd be curious to read the article it came from. Thank you.

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On topic, I'd also be a fan of min ilvl roulette as having something like would be better than filtering through PF to look for a very specific niche. However, if it takes a while to develop I don't think it'd be worth the resources. At best, I imagine the pool of players who would wish to participate in such a roulette would be small.

[HyoMinPark]

As for minimum item level roulette, honestly, I don't see it taking off unless you pump it full of rewards. Right now, it offers the same rewards as doing the content via DF/RF or unsynced, which means reward incentives cancel out and people can pick which way they do it purely by preference - with just about anyone and their mother preferring the easy way. Unless the rewards are strong enough to cancel out that preference, the roulette would be just as dead as any PF you put up for it.

Not sure if this is referencing tomes, but you can’t accrue tomestones via unsynced runs unless someone has a bonus—and, at that point, you only get the bonus tome amount, not the full tome reward for duty completion. Experience-wise, obviously unsynced doesn’t provide you with any sort of experience.

I honestly wouldn’t mind something like this, as someone who does have interest in running content at minimum ilvl (specifically, Coil and other 8-man content). However, without proper incentives (and they would probably have to be hefty given how most people will choose the easy way to run content), people won’t do it. I think it would be a nice change to have it offer current capped tomes, because Expert Roulette is the only decent source of them at the time, and it gets extremely dull running the same 3 dungeons over and over. More variety is always a good thing, I think.

[Pence]

However, without proper incentives (and they would probably have to be hefty given how most people will choose the easy way to run content), people won’t do it. I think it would be a nice change to have it offer current capped tomes, because Expert Roulette is the only decent source of them at the time, and it gets extremely dull running the same 3 dungeons over and over. More variety is always a good thing, I think.

First part: This was the issue with Coil (Savage). A harder fight with no incentive besides a title.

Second part: Less and less people even bother with expert for tomes anymore. I'm normally capped way before reset without bothering with them. This is one of the reasons SE is adding less dungeons: People are capping tomes through various means and dungeons are just not popular anymore (Though they may have missed the mark here; people just don't wanna do it because it's horrid content)

[HyoMinPark]

First part: This was the issue with Coil (Savage). A harder fight with no incentive besides a title.

My opinion is that, when content is relevant, there are still people willing to do content that offers little incentives outside of a title. See the upcoming Super Savage. As far as I am aware, it only offers a title—no other shinies, unless this has been changed. Yet there was a thread on here not too long ago with posters complaining about how “inaccessible” it was to lock Super Savage behind clearing V4S. However, I was not playing when Coil or Second Coil Savage was relevant, so whether or not this was the case then, I don’t know, but I still did Second Coil Savage (albeit, unsynced) just for 1. Something to do during he lull before SB, and 2. I wanted the titles.

I have plenty of interest to try my hand running Coil and Second Coil Savage at minimum ilvl. Because why not? I’ve done most everything else in this game. But finding likeminded people will definitely be a challenge for such an endeavor.

Second part: Less and less people even bother with expert for tomes anymore. I'm normally capped way before reset without bothering with them. This is one of the reasons SE is adding less dungeons: People are capping tomes through various means and dungeons are just not popular anymore (Though they may have missed the mark here; people just don't wanna do it because it's horrid content)

I think that’s probably more so that Expert Roulette is extremely dull. I can barely bring myself to cap each week now that I have geared BRD in everything but the last Savage pieces I need. The dungeons stopped being interesting after week one, and the runs are only made interesting when there’s other factors (like drama) to make them so. Expert is the easiest of the methods available to cap tomes, but also the most boring.


I know there are people that want this, but like I and others said, unless there are decent incentives, people that do not already have a prior interest in running content at minimum ilvl won’t do it. Because...well, why?

[Pence]

My opinion is that, when content is relevant, there are still people willing to do content that offers little incentives outside of a title. See the upcoming Super Savage. As far as I am aware, it only offers a title—no other shinies, unless this has been changed.

This was never changed, because it was never said. They actually made it clear it would be more than just titles - and it is in fact new i345 weapons with 'super sick amazing brah' designs. (But...c'mon, look at the state of end game gear. Don't expect much)

Also: 'Second Coil Savage' was never really a big thing. It feels like SE thought it was and spawned the initial Alex tier and......

[Zojha]

Not sure if this is referencing tomes, but you can’t accrue tomestones via unsynced runs unless someone has a bonus—and, at that point, you only get the bonus tome amount, not the full tome reward for duty completion. Experience-wise, obviously unsynced doesn’t provide you with any sort of experience.

Sure, but I don't feel like being nitpicky here, since that only goes to further drive the point I was making in the first place home - people generally don't prefer the hard way if they can have the easy way.

I don't ever recall them stating that that min ilvl is below the developed ilvl they assumed for.

It's the same old and worn interview often used in healer DPS debates, I bet you stumbled over it at some point.
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

[...]
Yoshida: When we make battle content, first we determine a minimum assumed item level required to clear. Then, we determine the total amount of party damage required to clear, taking a minimal amount of damage from tanks and healers into account during this calculation.

What do you mean by minimal?

Yoshida: Basically it's the damage from tank auto-attacks and the basic skill rotation used in order to maintain hate. We add this to the party damage needed. However, we often use zero in the calculation for damage required from healers. In other words, we only take into account the amount of damage necessary to perform as a tank or a healer and we don't take them into account as actively participating in attacking. For the clear assumption on DPS, we calculate the 100% value for the item level and we reduce that by 10 to 15 percent for the amount required to clear.

But it's often actually the case that healers do participate in attacking.

Yoshida: Well, the calculations are based on the item level assumed during development.

Ah, and that's different from the minimum item level required to try the content.

Yoshida: Yes. So if you try to clear it at a lower item level, it will be necessary for tanks and healers to participate in attacking. [...]

It's not 100% explicit, but it's easy to infer that he means "lower than the one assumed during development" in the last part, since an item level lower than is required to enter in the first place makes no sense, as that would mean you cannot enter. And since the two are explicitly different, that can only mean the assumed item level is higher than the minimum to enter. Which in turn also means healer DPS can be required to beat it. It's been chewed over numerous times.

[Ghishlain]

It's the same old and worn interview often used in healer DPS debates, I bet you stumbled over it at some point.
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

It's not 100% explicit, but it's easy to infer that he means "lower than the one assumed during development" in the last part, since an item level lower than is required to enter in the first place makes no sense, as that would mean you cannot enter. And since the two are explicitly different, that can only mean the assumed item level is higher than the minimum to enter. Which in turn also means healer DPS can be required to beat it. It's been chewed over numerous times.

Thanks for this. Yeah, I have read it in the past but must've missed that little bit regarding that difference. It's nice to see actually. I may just go through this translation again since it's fuzzy in my brain and would be fun to see the thought process of the developers at the time.

[Kernivorous]

This is actually a brilliant idea! They would need to give it worthwhile rewards though to convince people to do it.