Is Fordola the monster Lyse says she is?

[Alleo]

Well it truly depends if Varis cares enough for Ala Mhigo. He did not seem quite fazed for the loss and Hien also sent out his spies to create more unrest in other countries so it could be that they will be save thanks to that since Garlemald surely does not want to fight a war on more than one front and taking out the roots of new rebellions might be higher priority.

Also Fordolas actions would have not made it better. We saw that she treated the common people badly and at least the villagers already lived a terrible life under the Garlean rule so if nothing had changed for them, most would have probably be death somewhere in the future anyway. At least now they have their freedom back and maybe their motivation to fight and unlike before, where they stood alone against the empire, the whole alliance is together now and they have good fighters among their friend Hien too. I believe that it would not be that easy for Garlemald to take them back and on top of that Varis lost his son thus the one that should have followed on his throne..who knows what consequences this will bring.

Seeing how they solved the Uldah situation and how we barely hear anything about Ishgard and their problems..I am not sure if we see that much of an deep aftermath. Maybe like Ishgard we will have to deal with some factions of Ala Mhigo and maybe some attacks from Garlemald but I am not sure if they fully launch an attack again.

[Cilia]

I feel like it's unfair to brush Yotsuyu off as 'childish' and as simply throwing a 'temper tantrum'. Given that she was physically and sexually abused for years - seemingly from an early age at that - things are quite a bit more complicated in regards to her behaviour, thinking and actions. That doesn't excuse what she did but at the same she is a consequence of the unpleasant aspects of Doman society. Hien even acknowledged as much and her survival means that we're unlikely to hear the end of that plot point either.

EDIT:

...and why is my avatar now a miqo'te? Is it showing as that for anybody else? I guess it has something to do with my transfer from Balmung to Cerberus. Oh well!

The fact that Yotsuyu's abuse reaches back to her childhood is precisely what makes her behavior so childish. She never developed a conscience because of how horribly her family treated her, and believes all Domans are directly responsible for her suffering. This is untrue (most Domans likely had no idea who she was before Yotsuyu became acting viceroy), but she still treats any and all Domans as stress toys and sources of sadistic pleasure.

To believe she was the national whipping girl because a handful of people didn't treat her right is extremely immature of Yotsuyu. Only children believe the world revolves around them. That is why I call her actions a childish temper tantrum.

(inb4 "agree to disagree." /sarcasm. Nothing else to say on the matter, though. We've been through this before.)

Yes, you are showing up as a miqo'te.

I just realized that in Fordolas mind, the reaction of the resistance have doomed Ala Mhigo. I mean we know the empire will retaliate. Fordola knew of the forces the empire has and what they are capable of and if the garleans deploy 2 legions to re-conquer ala mhigo, the punishment will be severe and the alliances part in it is also a danger to their lands as well.

I hope that gets touched upon that for her, Lyse doomed her homeland and all the people in it to a painful death (we know it won t happen bc plot and WoL ofc) and you can argue that she thought she acted in Ala Mhigos best interest.

They might have re-conquered ala mhigo but what price will they have to pay to keep it?

I hope the game adresses the aftermath of a nation that was a Province for decades and has to deal with real consequences for \\\\killing the crown prince\\\\' bc that is someting the garlean empire has to punish in full force or they demonstrate that they are pushovers

Whether the Empire will bring a reprisal to bear upon Eorzea / Doma for taking their territory back remains to be seen. Might makes right to the Empire, and if we were mighty enough to reclaim those lands and Varis does not value them enough to counterattack it's not inconceivable the Empire would leave well enough alone.

The Empire shouldn't overlook killing the crown prince (honestly I would have kept him alive as a POW to use Zenos as a bargaining chip), but Varis apparently did not care whether he lived or died... and Zenos killed himself anyway. That one's not on Eorzea.

[Theodric]

(inb4 "agree to disagree." /sarcasm. Nothing else to say on the matter, though. We've been through this before.)

That aside, Varis acknowledged that Zenos was a monster and also refrained from sending reinforcements to back him up. Zenos also openly denounced Garlemald's cause at multiple points and showed little in the way of loyalty to his people. If anything, he was a liability and getting rid of him serves to do Varis a favour. With a reputation for being a tactician it isn't impossible that he intended for Zenos to perish or at least be far enough away from him to avoid a grab for power. We also do not know if the Emperor has additional heirs - or even who is next in line for the throne should Varis perish. It is something I could see Varis accounting for, though.

[SunAurel]

snip

I feel like the empire needs to do something drastic because at least for me, they lost their teeth and are more a pushover than real antagonists.

If they are like 'two of our provinces won their freedom and our crown prince is dead? who cares!' would just show us how they are not really a threat if they don't retaliate

Throughout the MSQ we are shown that people are scared of that retaliation if they try to win their freedom, and if they let it slide once it happened then that fear loses all credibility imo, so there needs to be a massive strike from the Empire story-wise.

Zenos might've done suicide, but he was still the crown prince and died during the battle for Ala Mhigos freedom - the potential for propaganda is huge

What I propose - story wise- is very dark and cruel, but I want the empire to show up in Gyr Abania with two cannons and legions and start bombing the villages/landscapes and demand Lyse's head + absolute surrender and go back to being a province.
It's harsh, but it shows us just why people were reluctant to follow and this is also where I see Fordolas redemption.

Fordola has insight on Garlean tactics and their infrastrucure and I thinkthat even if she were to come free and return to the empire, they'd execute her for her failure. Her knowledge of the Garlean military could turn the tide and deal a massive blow that secures Ala Mhigos independence

I see her refusing her aid at first, but when she sees that the alternative would be utter annihilation for her homeland, maybe she'd have a change of heart. Maybe Lyse would say something that echoes her words to Zenos where she said she would gladly give her life ont he battlefield to achieve a great victory, and that could also happen for Ala Mhigos freedom since that was ultimately her goal as well - though she saw it happen differently.

Heck, put that Garlean in charge that was badmouthing her and let her just join OUT OF SPITE since that's the most relatable thing ever

I also think she will die, but her death and actions might be what secures their freedom in the long run. It would be tragic and ironic that the woman marked as kinslayer and traitor was one responsible for their freedom, and something i think SE would do

But right now, the empire needs something drastic so that they can actually fill the role of an antagonist because right now they appear to be a laughable foe.

I want an enemy that can retaliate and push back against us and so far the empire has only been pushed back.

[Daralii]

That aside, Varis acknowledged that Zenos was a monster and also refrained from sending reinforcements to back him up. Zenos also openly denounced Garlemald's cause at multiple points and showed little in the way of loyalty to his people. If anything, he was a liability and getting rid of him serves to do Varis a favour. With a reputation for being a tactician it isn't impossible that he intended for Zenos to perish or at least be far enough away from him to avoid a grab for power. We also do not know if the Emperor has additional heirs - or even who is next in line for the throne should Varis perish. It is something I could see Varis accounting for, though.

Do we know if the other claimants were killed during the fighting after Solus died? I can't remember.

[Theodric]

Do we know if the other claimants were killed during the fighting after Solus died? I can't remember.

The War of Succession is described as being brutal in the lore book and at least some of the claimants to the throne were killed. We also know that there's a title in Garlemald for those who have royal blood but have no claim to the throne so I would not put it past some claimants to simply have cast aside their claim to ensure their survival. Others may have gone into hiding to bide their time and lick their wounds. As it stands, I don't see anyone rising up to challenge Varis' claim nor do I see him being written out of the plot anytime soon. A few people were convinced he was going to be given the 'Gestahl' treatment on Azyz Lla but that did not happen.

If anything, I suspect he may have a change of heart at some point - Rufus Shinra style - and enforce changes that will allow Garlemald to prosper, albeit in a different manner than before. He also strikes me as someone who may very well sacrifice himself for the 'greater good' at some point though they already did that with Regula. Ultimately, though, his main concern is finding some way to put an end to the Eikon threat. Elidibus being involved with him puts a wrench in the works but if he can listen to an Ascian then I see no reason why he cannot come to listen to a genuine attempt at diplomacy on the part of the Warrior of Light for the sake of all those who will perish in a full on war with Garlemald.

(Which is pretty much what the Ascians want to orchestrate, almost certainly...so someone among the protagonists should catch on to that sometime soon...hopefully...)

[Rocl]

Do we know if the other claimants were killed during the fighting after Solus died? I can't remember.

I don't recall if we ever figured out for sure whose grave Varis spit on, but I feel it was unlikely to be Solus' so probably his uncle's. After all Varis was said to favor his grandfather Solus above all else, but considered him too weak/lenient on his sons. It's also likely that Varis is the son of a third son of Solus', since the first-born died when he was eight and the second-born is called Varis' uncle and not father. (Or perhaps there's a daughter we're missing; I'm honestly unsure how the son of a daughter falls in primogeniture succession or w/e)

Other than that uncle, I don't believe we know of any other yae than Zenos, no.

(We also know Gaius killed eight aspirants to the crown before the War of Succession, but given the word 'aspirant' and not 'apparent,' I feel it's likely they weren't in the line of succession (or were pretty deep in).

[Wyssahtyn]

It was nine, not eight.

[Cilia]

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Discussing the complexity of Garlean morality is impossible because Garlemald is amoral - it does not care about right or wrong, only what works and what is efficient. Right and wrong do not enter the equation of its decision making.

I agree that Varis may have intentionally put Zenos where he was knowing his son would go crazy and get himself killed. Reinforcements weren't sent because the other legions were too busy keeping watch for revolts in the wake of Doma's liberation. (Zenos would likely have refused the aid anyway.)

I feel like the empire needs to do something drastic because at least for me, they lost their teeth and are more a pushover than real antagonists.

If they are like 'two of our provinces won their freedom and our crown prince is dead? who cares!' would just show us how they are not really a threat if they don't retaliate

Throughout the MSQ we are shown that people are scared of that retaliation if they try to win their freedom, and if they let it slide once it happened then that fear loses all credibility imo, so there needs to be a massive strike from the Empire story-wise.

Zenos might've done suicide, but he was still the crown prince and died during the battle for Ala Mhigos freedom - the potential for propaganda is huge

It took an entire expansion's story to defeat one legion split across two provinces, and even then we only won due to ineptitude on the part of Fordola and Yotsuyu and Zenos not caring about victory. Varis may not consider reclaiming Doma and Ala Mhigo worth the effort. I agree that there is a lot of potential for propaganda surrounding Zenos' death, but potential is just that and nothing more. It would be a lie to say we killed him, however.

The main thing people were afraid of was dying trying to win their freedom, or worse, failing to win that freedom and being put into even more repressive conditions than before. It was won; now independence needs to be defended if the Empire tries to take it away once more. (Again, the Domans and Ala Mhigans are more interested in rebuilding their shattered lives and homes than further aggression against the Empire. The ball is in the Empire's court; if it wants to make peace, now is the time.)

---

I disagree. While Varis does seem to be a practical man, nothing has yet suggested he will have a change of heart. On the contrary, for the time being his brief conversation with Elidibus suggests to me that he will work with Mr. White in an effort to preserve Garlemald and Garlemald alone in the compressed world. He is a ruler after all, and rulers are typically concerned with the good of their own people first and foremost. The rest of the world will, as per typical, be written off as a necessary sacrifice. Whatever it is he intends to do, we'll need to stop Varis - possibly with the help of a Larsa figure. (Once again, nobody wants to engage the Empire in further aggression for the moment.)

If he survives, then Varis can pull a Rufus. Based on the information we have right now, that's my speculation on how things are going to play out. (I'm probably wrong, though.)

[Kallera]

Imperial inepititude seems to be getting overdone, however, now with Zenos gone. Think about it from a thematic perspective: the most intimidating person the empire currently had spent little effort taking victory and all but set everything up for his defeat from the get go, from letting important insurgents live, to wrecking his own installations, all so that he could have a cool fight. His use of Shinryu hadn't even the slightest hint of strategy towards defeating his opponents, he literally used it on the first thing people would turn to in countering it.

Time and again we see the garleans round up a bunch of machina under their command, and get trounced whenever anyone with a name shows up against them, Gyr Abania and Yanxia, and eorzea is LITTERED with the wreckage of airships and machina, some still burning! And the shooting against Estinien to no sell whatsoever is just, *throws hands*...they're not a threat, they are less than human. They are window dressing to be put down and destroyed. We are literally shown nothing except things justifying a long lasting and irrational hatred for anything related to them.