Why cant we play Garlean empire?

[Theodric]

They're not wrong in believing the Warrior of Light and his allies to be rebels as that is exactly what they are.

[Mysterysword]

Let's stop feeding the obvious troll, shall we?

[CaesarCV]

They're not wrong in believing the Warrior of Light and his allies to be rebels as that is exactly what they are.

This is true, but also irrelevant. It is correct to say that Garlemald had a good reason to try and attack the WoL and their companions. After all, they wish to prevent rebellious actions from being taken, and the WoL and their companions would probably pursue them. So, it's logical to try and do something about it, namely kill them. However, the rules of Kugane state that fighting is not to be done in the city, and nobody is supposed to attack one another. It's part of their 'armed neutrality' system. By attacking the WoL inside of the city, they are violating Kugane's laws and, being the clear aggressors, are at fault. Effectively, they most definitely did not follow Kugane's rules or 'keep' the peace. Now, if they had attacked somewhere where they had control over (IE Doma) it would be more as you seem to be describing it. Similarly if Garlemald had used its influence to force the Hingashi government to expel them (they're implied to have some influence given how they managed to make them agree to not support the Ruby Tithe) it would also be another story. But the fact of the matter is that they willfully and blatantly ignored the rules and laws of Kugane in their attempt on the WoL's life.

And I will defend Theodoric in stating that he is not a troll. He merely has opinions and wishes to state them, as is the right on this forum.

[Alleo]

They're not wrong in believing the Warrior of Light and his allies to be rebels as that is exactly what they are.

That like arresting or killing someone because they could be onto something or could turn into something. They had no idea that the group coming from Eorzea and staying with a business will be bad. Normal travelers exist and there should be normal adventurers in the city too. There is no rule that nobody can travel over the sea, just that most dont do it because of the situation right now. As long as the Garlean soldiers did not know for a 100% that they would cause trouble, which they simply could not, then they were the aggressors that attacked others in a city that was meant to be peaceful for every party. (Yes even for rebells)

And as CaesarCV pointed out, even if they did know for sure they would still break the rules of Kugane, because the city does not care why you are there as long as you keep the peace, thus no armed conflict. So they are far away from peaceful.

They could have given other soldiers on the other side the hint that there are people coming over that seems suspicious and let them handle it. But they chose to set up a trap and tried to kill us, on nothing but an uncertain "could be". This is far away from the claim that the WoL in any form caused it.

[Cilia]

Like I said, I'm tired of the long-winded dissertations, so I'm going to keep this short and simple.

Yet, thankfully, we know that isn't the case at all as it has been confirmed through multiple sources that whilst some regions suffer under Garlean rule others have prospered or remained virtually unchanged. It is largely inevitable that we will see such areas in the future for ourselves as we explore more of Hydaelyn. We've also seen Garlemald keeping the peace in Kugane.

Some provinces prospering under Imperial rule doesn't change the fact they aren't free or independent. Furthermore outside of their homeland in northern Ilsabard no known Imperial territory was acquired through peaceful negotiation.

Gilded cages are still cages. If the people in those provinces prefer Imperial rule they should be left to it; if they do not want (and never wanted) it, it should not be forced on them.

Garlemald did not keep the peace in Kugane. It broke the peace by hiring an informant to lead anyone seeing passage to Othard into an ambush. The Imperials in Kugane didn't even know who we were - they just knew someone was looking to get to Othard, therefore they must be a rebel. Outside of Varis himself, no Imperial seems to recognize us. (Even Zenos didn't know who we were when first we met.) They were right in this case, but Kugane has a strict no-violence policy, which the Empire broke first. We defended ourselves and made as peaceful and stealthy an escape as we could.

(And then I brought the Garlean consul bath water from the hot springs after he ordered me killed. I'm so awful. Tell Festus I said hi! /sarcasm.)

[VargasVermillion]

It was stated in the lore book that some of the locations close to the garlean homeland were annexed through diplomacy as well. They just didn't give specific names, if i remember correctly they referred to it as a 'carrot on a stick' offering magitek in exchange for joining them.

The kugane incident was definitely dirty and unlawful, overall we've seen the fringes of the empire and until we see all of it and it's people we can't make a completely accurate judgement. Their military might be brutal but it does seem like the citizenry are kept complacent through propaganda and the like I'd be very interested in seeing garlemald as a whole, especially purebloods who aren't apart of the aristocracy or military. Nero for example came from rural garlemald so it'd be nice to hear more about that.

[Cilia]

It was stated in the lore book that some of the locations close to the garlean homeland were annexed through diplomacy as well. They just didn't give specific names, if i remember correctly they referred to it as a 'carrot on a stick' offering magitek in exchange for joining them.

Hey, I learned something! (/no sarcasm.)

Still... neither Doma nor Ala Mhigo got the gentle treatment. Ala Mhigo had its ruler fed paranoia by Imperial spies for a decade before being deposed in response to the brutality born of that paranoia, making it easy pickings for the Empire. Doma seems to have just been steamrolled. Those are the nations pertinent to the discussion at hand, and neither wanted Imperial rule. (The same seems to be true of Dalmasca. Viva la resistance! Viva!)

The kugane incident was definitely dirty and unlawful, overall we've seen the fringes of the empire and until we see all of it and it's people we can't make a completely accurate judgement. Their military might be brutal but it does seem like the citizenry are kept complacent through propaganda and the like I'd be very interested in seeing garlemald as a whole, especially purebloods who aren't apart of the aristocracy or military. Nero for example came from rural garlemald so it'd be nice to hear more about that.

Their military is the only part of the Empire we have dealt with. The Imperial army is what subjugates and oppresses the people of the provinces we've seen.

How exactly Imperial civilians live is something I'm curious about as well. Still, if a majority of Imperial civilians feel being an aan (lowest-ranked member of Imperial society; non-citizen, no better than a slave or chattel) is an honor, well...

[Mysterysword]

And I will defend Theodoric in stating that he is not a troll. He merely has opinions and wishes to state them, as is the right on this forum.

There is stating your opinions, and then there is wilfully ignoring established facts and stating the contrary just to get attention. You've been repeating the same facts over and over again only to get ignored because what you say doesn't fit into his opinion. Don't you get tired of it?

How exactly Imperial civilians live is something I'm curious about as well. Still, if a majority of Imperial civilians feel being an aan (lowest-ranked member of Imperial society; non-citizen, no better than a slave or chattel) is an honor, well...

If I'm right in assuming that Garlemald runs an extensive propaganda campaign (and really, no dictatorship is compelete without one), then it would be fairly easy for the government to convince their citizens that serving them is an honour. The Garleans uphold a rigid caste system, and from what I can tell, the only means of social mobility is through the military. When we get to Garlemald, I'd be disappointed if we didn't get civilian NPCs who want to advance past their lot in life, but have no means of doing so other than the military, and are upset about this, if that's the case.

Additionally, making more guesses here, but Garlemald's propaganda for its citizens would be teaching them something along the lines of: their war of conquest is their right as people of Garlemald, anyone who wishes to serve is doing a noble thing, their current way of life is the only civilised way, anyone who cannot advance from their current rank/caste and is unhappy about that is simply lazy/incompetent.

A state run by constant indoctrination from birth would be an interesting thing to see in-game, for me, anyway. Show us loudspeakers on every corner! Give us the banners, the public speakers, the pamphlets, flyers, and maybe even television ads! It's all just extrapolation from the fact that I see so many Garlean soldiers wholeheartedly believing in their idealogy despite all the evidence to the contrary, and trying to think of reasons why they would think like that.

[YianKutku]

A state run by constant indoctrination from birth would be an interesting thing to see in-game, for me, anyway. Show us loudspeakers on every corner! Give us the banners, the public speakers, the pamphlets, flyers, and maybe even television ads! It's all just extrapolation from the fact that I see so many Garlean soldiers wholeheartedly believing in their idealogy despite all the evidence to the contrary, and trying to think of reasons why they would think like that.

I'm less keen on the idea of seeing such a thing in-game, entirely because from what I've seen of most fiction media, any attempt to depict a "constant indoctrination" regime immediately goes over-the-top with its depiction. And to be honest, I really don't trust the story team of this game to get it right.

We don't need loudspeakers on every corner, and the entire place plastered with banners and fliers. A lot less of it, in more judicious areas, is more than enough to cause the same effect. The trick is to make it ever-present, but subtle and subversive. The citizen shouldn't need to be reminded of the Correct Way of thinking; they just need to believe that the Correct Way is common sense.

However, fiction likes to make things ridiculously obvious, because they have to quickly set the stage at a glance. This is why "(European-themed) fantasy" means knights and magic everywhere, and "Old Japan" means samurai and ninja around every corner. It's lazy set-dressing.

I acknowledge that there are real-world examples of intense propaganda meaning the aforementioned loudspeakers everywhere. It's essentially brute-forcing the issue. We've all learned far more effective ways since then, and that is what I want to see in-game, should it occur.

[Theodric]

Let's stop feeding the obvious troll, shall we?

I hope to see an apology for such a hurtful comment. I have repeatedly offered to agree to disagree on issues that specifically relate to subjective interpretations of the canon lore. One man's hero is another man's sworn enemy, after all and there are countless examples in-game and within the lore book that suggest and outright state that most things in this setting are more nuanced than they are often credited as being.

Not to blow my own horn too much but I put forward the theory that there would be more to the Dragonsong War back before Ysayle was first introduced. I proved to be on the right track. I also put forward the theory that Garlemald likely suffered immensely in the past and resorted to putting their own people first and foremost as a result of such suffering. The lore book came and that proved to be the case as well. Then there's the situation with the Warriors of Darkness. I speculated that their intense conviction was a sign that they were justified from their perspective and the stakes would be incredibly high if they failed. That proved correct too. Then there's Regula, who many people here suggested would become the next Kefka. I disagreed and suggested that he would, instead, prove to be an honourable man as he had a very 'knightly' vibe about him. Yet again I was proven correct. The subtle hints about such things have always been present - many simply choose to ignore them and then act surprised when things turn out to be more complicated than they initially assumed.

I think it's pretty ridiculous for some people to act like my points never have any merit and that things couldn't possibly be viewed through a lens that shows things in any way beyond what happens to paint the antagonists in the worst possible light and the protagonists in the best possible light at every turn. You're welcome to agree to disagree, as I already stated. That goes for anyone. Nobody gets to insult other posters or push a false narrative about their motives, though.