Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Moonfish]

I just don't feel the nuance you're trying to portray really exists. It's a CD and if it isn't seeing use it isn't helping you except to give you a false sense of security.

I get the feeling that you don't understand that Living Dead and Holmgang literally do nothing if the users HP doesn't hit 0. They are the "oh sht, I am going to die" buttons to give the healer a few more seconds. There is no point in using them if you're not in dire danger.

[KaivaC]

snip

Like the comment above me says, Living Dead is essentially completely useless unless you hit 0HP while you have it active. And it's not active for a long time, as its an ability you basically should should pre-emptively for damage that cannot be outhealed. Other than that, it's completely useless to use them. Tanks don't run on the same concept as healers, where I can use all my oGCDs and still keep the tank and DPS relatively topped off. Other than our defensive CDs, a DRK running around using LD at every first opportunity that's available is just wasting the skill - and doubly so if they somehow die from some high-damage attacks, which they would've been immune from if they had LD available.

I'm assuming Holmgang runs on the same concept.

You would know this if you had actually leveled a Warrior or Dark Knight past level 30.

[Rita1989]

Sorry but your wrong about living dead, at least in casual content it's a cooldown that should be used like any other and saving it for a hypothetical situation is a waste of the skill unless you have 0 confidence in your healer.

It's a skill that that when communicated allows your healer to freely dps for a number of seconds which on big dungeon pulls is a huge chunk of dps lost if they are having to sit there healing you.

If your a newer tank who wants it as a safety net until your more confident fine but don't tell people it's the way it should always be used always.

[Cenerae]

Sorry but your wrong about living dead, at least in casual content it's a cooldown that should be used like any other and saving it for a hypothetical situation is a waste of the skill unless you have 0 confidence in your healer.

It's a skill that that when communicated allows your healer to freely dps for a number of seconds which on big dungeon pulls is a huge chunk of dps lost if they are having to sit there healing you.

If your a newer tank who wants it as a safety net until your more confident fine but don't tell people it's the way it should always be used always.

I would have zero trust in a DF DRK trying to pull that off, as a healer (ie, I would ignore their want and keep them above 0hp in the first place). Similarly, were I the DRK I would have zero trust in my healer being able to pull me back from the brink afterwards.

It's a minimal gain if executed properly and a potential party wipe if someone messes up.

[Rita1989]

If I'm healing a DRK I'm not going to let their health fall to 0 in the first place. I'd much rather keep the health bar afloat than ignore it and then go into panic heal mode popping cooldowns unecessarily just so the tank doesn't keep over when living dead times out.

I guess it comes down to your confidence as a healer because you can plan it out so your not panic healing as you got 10 seconds and I know the DRK I run dungeons with gets irked when he pops LD and sees healer spamming heals on them in a frenzy wasting the CD entirely.

[MoroMurasaki]

I get the feeling that you don't understand that Living Dead and Holmgang literally do nothing if the users HP doesn't hit 0. They are the "oh sht, I am going to die" buttons to give the healer a few more seconds. There is no point in using them if you're not in dire danger.

You may get that feeling but it would be wrong. Not to get too catty but I am capable of reading a tooltip and understanding the applications of a move.

Like the comment above me says, Living Dead is essentially completely useless unless you hit 0HP while you have it active. And it's not active for a long time, as its an ability you basically should should pre-emptively for damage that cannot be outhealed. Other than that, it's completely useless to use them. Tanks don't run on the same concept as healers, where I can use all my oGCDs and still keep the tank and DPS relatively topped off. Other than our defensive CDs, a DRK running around using LD at every first opportunity that's available is just wasting the skill - and doubly so if they somehow die from some high-damage attacks, which they would've been immune from if they had LD available.

I'm assuming Holmgang runs on the same concept.

You would know this if you had actually leveled a Warrior or Dark Knight past level 30.

I can basically copy and paste my response to the previous post to respond to yours but while that person at least seemed like they might be trying to be helpful you just come off condescending.

I'm not sure how you think you contributed to this discussion but as this originally tied into dungeon content I'm unsure what huge damage attacks you're saving Living Dead for that any mediocre healer can't heal through. The largest amount of damage that you see in a 4 man dungeon is not from the bosses but the trash packs pulled in succession. In that situation you could give a healer several GCDs of AoE damage by popping a CD like this while keeping yourself completely safe. If you feel like you need to hold onto this for a tankbuster from a dungeon boss maybe you need to gear up.

Also, shockingly, you don't need to level a class to learn about what it's moves do - they make that sort of info available on the intetnet. You would know that if you researched other classes you had little interest in playing so that you could have a base understanding of how they play to make grouping with them smoother.

I would have zero trust in a DF DRK trying to pull that off, as a healer (ie, I would ignore their want and keep them above 0hp in the first place). Similarly, were I the DRK I would have zero trust in my healer being able to pull me back from the brink afterwards.

It's a minimal gain if executed properly and a potential party wipe if someone messes up.

I have a button that heals all your HP in about one second on WHM which sits on a much shorter CD than LD. Just because this isn't something you do doesn't mean it isn't perfectly functional.

Also as I feel my point has been made I don't want to derail this wonderful thread anymore, if someone wants to make a thread around tank CD use I am happy to participate but otherwise I'm done arguing about something so clearly black and white.

[KaivaC]

snip

Apologies, but no, you are wrong about Living Dead. Sure, you can toss it out every time it's available, but given that we are currently talking about casual content and probably the DF, it's not a risk you want to take with a healer you don't know. If they are not on point in places like Bartam's Mettle...or really, any of the SB dungeons, or any large pulls, you're gonna want to save LD for those instances. If it came off that I was telling people this was how its supposed to be done, then sorry...I should rephrase and say ideally, this is how living dead should work. If other DRKs make it work that way, more power to them. But that's something that other drk players should be mentioning. Not a healer who hasn't leveling a single tank past Level 30, and certain not a Lvl 70 warrior who hasn't unlocked the DRK's LD skill on their main and put it to practice.

BTW, Living Dead ONLY activates if you go below 0HP. Holmgang just stops you from dropping below 1HP, if I am reading the skills correctly. And in the event that Living Dead does go off, the healer needs to bring the tank back up to full before Walking Dead fades. Healer DPS is nice, but in casual runs, it's not THAT much of a DPS increase unless the DPS running with you are just plain terrible.

[Rita1989]

I would have zero trust in a DF DRK trying to pull that off, as a healer (ie, I would ignore their want and keep them above 0hp in the first place). Similarly, were I the DRK I would have zero trust in my healer being able to pull me back from the brink afterwards.

It's a minimal gain if executed properly and a potential party wipe if someone messes up.

Your potentially causing a wipe doing this though if it's a really large pull that the tank is confident in and uses a macro he is popping living dead to help handle it and you spam all your cooldowns early trying to not let his health fall and ends up dieing because your now out of CD now and he wasted his best CD.

[Taika]

Apologies, but no, you are wrong about Living Dead. Sure, you can toss it out every time it's available, but given that we are currently talking about casual content and probably the DF, it's not a risk you want to take with a healer you don't know.

Optimally, you don't use these cooldowns the moment they're up (and I don't think that's what she's suggesting), but as a good tank, you will plan the pulls on which you'll use them (and in the best case also let your healer know about your plan). You don't hang on to them for those "oh shit" situations that aren't likely to happen - you use them tactically to prevent those oh shit situations in the first place.

[MoroMurasaki]

Optimally, you don't use these cooldowns the moment they're up (and I don't think that's what she's suggesting), but as a good tank, you will plan the pulls on which you'll use them (and in the best case also let your healer know about your plan). You don't hang on to them for those "oh shit" situations that aren't likely to happen - you use them tactically to prevent those oh shit situations in the first place.

Thank you for saying this so perfectly.