Excluding Players from Ultimate Savage is Not the Right Move

[technole]

"Maybe more complaints". Well YoshiP did say don't complain about difficulty in his last interview, so that's that.

Besides if people *really* want in on Ultimate they can either progress, or fork up the gil and buy an O4S clear. FC/statics can always use gil in the war chest for next tier.

[Starflake]

Yes, people should pay gil in the millions to get access to content that does not affect you in any way, shape or form. It seems a lot of the "good" raiders are keen in keeping their content exclusive for some unkown reason. Well, we all know the reason, but it's not being mentioned. As soon as someone gets a solid argument as to why people should be included in content that does not affect you at all. Come back at me.

[KalinOrthos]

snip

A reason you don't like is not "no rational reason whatsoever". An argument from incredulity does not a sound argument make. Ultimate Savage is going to be hard enough that there will be a minimum amount of skill needed, a necessary skill floor, and the best way to do that is to make sure the player knows the fights they'll be going against.

I'm on of the few people who appreciates the lowering of the skill floor needed to play Savage. I'm midcore, at best, and I've been eagerly waiting to try my hand at Savage, once my static gets all formed up. The fact that Omega is so accessible is honestly a good thing, but not when it's shunning hardcore raiders out the door, as it is currently. Ultimate Savage is a great way to solve that situation, giving hardcore raiders content to bash their heads against while giving us casuals and midcore players normal Savage to play. Really, you're whining because you're being asked to have a ticket to ride the ride.

[BillyKaplan]

The problem is very obvious. It excludes people for no rational reason whatsoever. If solid players want to recruit other solid, experienced players, you can easily put that option in Party Finder.

The reason being irrational, and it being one you disagree with, are completely different things. Almost every game out there has increasing levels of difficulty. Or do you think that way back when, people who couldn't clear Garuda HM should've been allowed to go into Garuda EX? (using the old primals since that's the only example I can think of in this game of content having more tiers than the story-then-optional)
If you can't clear Garuda HM, you have no business being in Garuda EX. It's that simple. And if you can clear Garuda EX, you can clear Garuda HM so where's the problem? Same here. Way back when iirc some Primal Ex fights were locked behind you also clearing other Primal Ex fights. They have since changed that, but the original logic was solid, imo, as the fights increase in difficulty. It's no longer relevant between power creep and unsyncing, but it's not like this was never done before in this game, either.

[Vahlnir]

Honestly, I don't have an issue with this. Let the hardcore crowd have something...hardcore. Not gonna affect me none, or anyone really that doesn't wanna take part.

[Starflake]

snip.

No, the reason is irrational, not because I don't like it, but because it's irrational. It does not matter how hard this content is, it should still be accessible. Because if we would gate people from content that is too hard, we should also gate 50 percent (?) of the playerbase who will never be good enough to clear Omega savage. But we don't do that, do we? Because it makes no sense. Giving hardcore raiders that option in no way gets in danger by giving other people that option too.

[Cenerae]

Yes, people should pay gil in the millions to get access to content that does not affect you in any way, shape or form. It seems a lot of the "good" raiders are keen in keeping their content exclusive for some unkown reason. Well, we all know the reason, but it's not being mentioned. As soon as someone gets a solid argument as to why people should be included in content that does not affect you at all. Come back at me.

You've yet to provide a solid argument as to why everyone and their pet cat should be allowed to waltz into content that's being designed specifically for the best raiders.

Your argument can be boiled down to 'I pay my sub therefore I am entitled to everything I want without having to work for it in some manner'. If, for whatever reason, you don't want to work for access to the hardest content by actually being good enough to beat it...but you still feel like you have to see it? Then you have the option to bribe other people to do the work for you.

That's very inclusive, if you ask me. Nobody's unable to make gil in this game after all. Or are your hypothetical cognitive disabled people unable to do that as well?

And I'm coming at this with the perspective of someone who doesn't have any interest in clearing Omega savage, so that content is going to be barred to me as well. Just in case you're planning to play the 'elitist raider' card on me. :P

[Starflake]

snip

So what you are saying is that content is to be cleared only and not enjoyed? If you can't clear HM, you have no business in extreme. Sounds exactly like what you are saying. By that logic, we should ban at least 50 percent in this playerbase of not more to never be able to clear Omega savage. Because they obviously will never be able to do it.

[Starflake]

You've yet to provide a solid argument as to why everyone and their pet cat should be allowed to waltz into content that's being designed specifically for the best raiders.

Your argument can be boiled down to 'I pay my sub therefore I am entitled to everything I want without having to work for it in some manner'.

There have been plenty of arguments as they why exclusion does not make sense. They are all arguments why inclusion is not harmful at all.

[KalinOrthos]

I'm gonna go ahead and duck out. Not because I don't think I can't argue against this guy, but because you all can do it so much better, and also, I just hope the thread just devolves into 40 pages of everyone calling the OP out on their silliness.