Excluding Players from Ultimate Savage is Not the Right Move

[Starflake]

I honestly don't understand why Ultimate Savage content is locked behind O4S. And I can already hear some of you claim I am probably just some unexperienced player who is only bitter because he'll never clear it. Well, you would be wrong, I have cleared everything, every tier including Gordias before nerfs were a thing. On O4S and we'll most likely kill it tomorrow due to having had a pretty shaky raid schedule. Now that this disclaimer is out of the way, we can get to the gist of it.

There is absolutely zero reason for SE to exclude players from entering Ultimate Savage. Even if they will never be able to clear it, they should still have the option of being able to enter the fight. These people pay just as much as O4S clearers. I understand that players who are serious about clearing Savage Ultimate do not want people who are unexperienced. But it's incredibly easy to bypass this.
Just as is the case with Extremes for example you can make it so that only clearers of set extreme primal can join. Why not give PF creators the same option? So that when they are serious about Ultimate Savage progression and only want experienced people, only O4S clearers can join. That way, people who have no intent of clearing, or have never cleared O4S can at least experience it.

I am absolutely baffled that 95%(?) are denied this content when such a simple solution would not deny them this fight. Inclusion is not a bad thing in this case.
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Edit: I never thought this would get as much exposure as it did. Since it was such a popular topic, and I've read all of the comments, some pleasant, others, not so much. But I did change my stance. Even though I stay adamant about all content being available for all people, it should not be from the start. The most convincing argument that I've heard is that letting in a select group of people first will put SE in the best position to receive feedback on set fight. I absolutely agree with this. Another one I have heard is that it may have a negative impact on statics to allow them into much more difficult content than what they may already be struggling with. We saw this in Gordias too as the raiding scene took quite a hit there. All in all, I am staying out of this topic and do request it slowly dies. What needed to be said, has been said. I've personally changed my stance and thought it was fruitful all around.

[MiniPrinny]

This is one of those cases of gatekeeping that is probably a good idea, not a bad one. This gatekeeping is in place to stop players who simply aren't ready for the difficulty. And if they think they're ready, they're horribly mistaken.

[technole]

You shouldn't be baffled, this was known for the longest time that you have to cleared the savage tier as the price of admission. Besides, do you really want people who can't even bring enough DPS to down O4S Neo ExDeath or not close to i340 BiS before going into Ultimate?

I'll bet they will tune this instance to i340 minimum that way it's a level playing field for everyone who has cleared. People who can't even clear O3S have no access to i340 weapons for-example, do you want those people with Susano and plain tome weapons? Probably not.

[Cenerae]

The entire point behind Ultimate Savage is that it's there to challenge people who've already beaten the regular Savage raids and want something else to do.

That strongly implies that if you're still progressing on the regular Savage content, you have absolutely no business being there. Let the top couple percent have their super duper ultra mega hard raid, it's not doing everyone else any harm. If you can't beat O4s now then you can always beat it later into the expansion cycle and go experience the superhard fight then.

[Starflake]

It does not matter how poorly geared people are, or how poorly they are in general. It does not matter if they are unable to clear either. We don't exclude people from Omega savage either, and it's obvious some of them will never get to clear that either. Why do we have to stop people because they are not "ready" for that difficulty? You would deny them this fight for this reason alone? Will we gate Omega Savage behind striking dummies or earlier savage content to prove they are capable? It's inconsistent.

[Starflake]

The entire point behind Ultimate Savage is that it's there to challenge people who've already beaten the regular Savage raids and want something else to do.

That strongly implies that if you're still progressing on the regular Savage content, you have absolutely no business being there.

So does this mean that for example disabled people who have a cognitive disorder should never be able to do Savage content because they will never be able to clear it anyway and they have no business being there? It's a very poor argument. It makes no difference if people can or can't clear it. It harms absolutely nobody that they can have a taste of the content regardless.

[technole]

Technically Neo ExDeath is gated behind ExDeath and that is just a DPS-check with mechanics. The new Faust. So yes.

Still, getting people who have no business being in Ultimate will just turn up complaining by those who really had no chance anyway.

[KalinOrthos]

I'm...really not seeing the problem. Ulitmate Savage is going to be HARDER, repeat, HARDER than Savage. Why would they not require you to complete Ultimate Savage?

[Starflake]

I'm...really not seeing the problem. Ulitmate Savage is going to be HARDER, repeat, HARDER than Savage. Why would they not require you to complete Ultimate Savage?

Because it shouldn't matter how hard it is? Denying people things because they can't clear it anyway is uncessary exlcusion. See earlier post.

[Cenerae]

So does this mean that for example disabled people who have a cognitive disorder should never be able to do Savage content because they will never be able to clear it anyway and they have no business being there? It's a very poor argument. It makes no difference if people can or can't clear it. It harms absolutely nobody that they can have a taste of the content regardless.

If they can't pull their weight in Omega savage due to a disability or whatever reason really, then why on earth would such a person have a burning desire to go to *even harder* content where they know full well they're only going to be a liability?

That would be an awful experience for them.