Tank Gauges -specifically PLD-

[Kwoon]

And you don't feel the gauge is useless? Shelltron could have been left as a regular CD and PLD would play exactly the same.

[MahoSenshi]

Well, gauge IS somewhat slapped on, but not useless. With Shelltron/Intervention being tied to it, you can plan proactive gauge usage. Will you need that 50/100 for incoming tankbuster or can safely use for incoming raid damage to gain mp/proc Shield Swipe while OTing, for instance. O1S's Twin Bolt and Neo's Earth Shakers come to mind immediately. My only gripe with gauge that its too big - if only we'd have a hotbar-sized icon with a big number on it...

[Mavrias]

Stance dancing isn't so much a dance as it is "stay in dps stance as much as possible." With the idea you've proposed MT would be directly punishing the pally because they're constantly losing gauge for dpsing.

[Kwoon]

Not if its tied to the amount of original damage done. When are you likely to be in tank stance? On the tankbuster, ie the high damage. You would be in Sword Oath during the normal, lighter hits meaning large jumps on the tank buster and light drops while you dps. In my mind its balanced in such a way that by properly swapping for the heavy hitters you would consistently have a sufficient amount of gauge to dps with. Messing it up and being in Sword Oath for a heavy hitter would then be more punishing since you'd "lose" more potential gauge in the sense of not having that hit increase the gauge.

Also, on content where you DON'T feel comfortable playing on that "higher level" (or so I've heard it called) the defense boost from Shield Oath is there since your gauge would remain full. Less useful, but for less skillful play. As you progress on the content you start to feel comfortable, start weaving in some stance dancing and voila, as your skill in the fight increases, so does your dps.

Honestly though, I just want the gauge to feel like it has a reason to be there. I see the strategy argument in a sense, but if you took the gauge away, slapped on a similar CD you wouldn't even notice its gone other than the big eyesore not blocking your view. Instead you'd weave shelltron in like normal and toss in your intervention out while OTing when its time for it. It just feels like an incredibly lazy gauge. The only reason I'm not more upset about it is that PLD is in an incredibly good spot as balancing goes so its hard to complain. It would just be nice to see the gauges have some more creative/strategic use which encourage people to play more effectively.

[Lambdafish]

Wait, so your idea is the make PLD play like hes in FF2?

[MahoSenshi]

When are you likely to be in tank stance?

In ideal world - never. Well, at least as little as possible. Most PLDs don't use tank stance for busters, in a coordinated party there are plenty of other methods to mitigate them. Each stance swap means 2 GCD loss of damage and some mana. So, if boss does five tankbusters over the course of fight, we lose 10 GCDs plus mana enough to make that a full 3 combo worth of damage. That is a HUGE loss. So, either party will never assign PLD to MT slot or they will mitigate more. Or... they just say "Hey why don't you switch to DRK and stop being a bother?"

[Zfz]

In an ideal world, the tank stance should be designed such that any time you're tanking anything, you want to be in tanking stance. The current meta of using the tank stance as little as possible is basically a design failure.

Hence to make do with this failed design, any change must also conform to the idea that it is best to use Shield Oath as little as possible.

Personally I think it's just better to overhaul it and untie tank dps from suvivability. It's not a trade-off anymore because with the exception of AOE tanking large packs of trash (which means insignificant content) tanks will take lower suvivability any day in favor of higher dps.

[Sarcatica]

Personally I think it's just better to overhaul it and untie tank dps from suvivability. It's not a trade-off anymore because with the exception of AOE tanking large packs of trash (which means insignificant content) tanks will take lower suvivability any day in favor of higher dps.

The lower survivability is already debunked by ages ago though, taking more damage from autos is basically nonissue and tanking tank busters are mostly making sure that you don't get 1shot by the following auto attacks and you are pretty much done.

Who would have thought that now tank stance is "bad"? It was first a concept that has remained till today with a few changes to it. If any, you should be asking how needed is tank stance in the lower percentile of the playerbase because the game can't be tuned to suit the top players THAT you absolutely need tank stance to get into the said contents because that alone will deny most tanks which SHOULD NEVER be the case. Most tanks can't even be bothered to use CDs or even press buttons quick enough, let alone if SE tunes everything that tanks MUST use all of their skills to survive and contribute to the team.

I still see PLDs doing 2k in O4S as an OT, the WAR MT did 2.4k on Exdeath. Like how ridiculous that an OT has way less dps than the MT? During prog on o1s-o3s, I was in Grit for 70%+ easily and guess what? I did 2.4k on o3s for my first clear. It's obviously not SE's fault because the gap is always still neverending.

[MahoSenshi]

I still see PLDs doing 2k in O4S as an OT, the WAR MT did 2.4k on Exdeath. Like how ridiculous that an OT has way less dps than the MT?

I do 2.8k as PLD OT (we still progressing Neo). As Exdeath is such a short fight, two main things that affect DPS:
* Number of crits in the first phase - depending on RNG, you can do 3600-4300 on the same char using the same rotation.
* Handling the black holes. If you somewhat lucky and can afford some risks, PLD can time nuke phase to holes and spam HS while stutter-sprinting.
MT/OT in Exdeath is not a thing, as Thunder forces tank swaps one way or another. Both tanks will be in DPS stance for 99%-100% of the fight depending solely on enmity management in a group (i.e. having a NIN or not, assuming both tanks use Shirk).