Two Months In: Will You Reconsider GL IV?

[Xeinon]

Only thing id like to see if the form changes duration invrease. Everything else you suggested is way overpowered. MNK is already one of the top DPS classes, does it really need anything more?

I see this argument all the time and I honestly just don't get your point. Literally nothing of what OP has said had anything to do with MNK being underpowered and in need of buffs, hes asking for gameplay changes and so are many many other MNK mains, especially those playing since ARR since the gameplay changed little to nothing and with SB got even worse.

I just feel like a lot of players and especially SE are way too hung up on numbers. People like OP are suggesting these changes not because we want our job to be stronger and have higher DPS, we actually want the gameplay and HOW we achieve those numbers to improve, because at the end of the day thats what actually matters. The numbers will be balanced eventually but the gameplay stays the same.

[BucklesTrespen]

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Yes, this exactly. Thanks so much!

[Ariomi]

I just feel like a lot of players and especially SE are way too hung up on numbers. People like OP are suggesting these changes not because we want our job to be stronger and have higher DPS, we actually want the gameplay and HOW we achieve those numbers to improve, because at the end of the day thats what actually matters. The numbers will be balanced eventually but the gameplay stays the same.

Believe it or not. Having the core gameplay of the class stay the same is a good thing.

See Summoner salt threads for details. Greased Lightning 4 would require a tremendous amount of nerfs to Monk However. Monks would likely lose a lot of potency, and the timing of Monk would probably be butchered. Grease lightning 4 would have 3 effects. #1 Monks would be far more punishing. If you lose greased lightning 4 or die you have to spend all that time getting it back. 12 gcd's till you get back to full damage. #2 This applies to the opener and pushes Monk's damaging skills backwards. It would take 4 snap punches to reach max damage, meaning if perfect balance is on cooldown, you are out of luck. #3 Skills like tornado kick would be devastating to Monk's dps. Tornado kick would eat all your stacks for 300 potency, and would take what, 30 seconds to get back to greased lightning 4 without perfect balance?

The only way greased lighting would work, was if it was a side effect of fists of wind and was a temporary buff only.

[Xeinon]

Believe it or not. Having the core gameplay of the class stay the same is a good thing..

You see thats my exact problem, the core identity and gameplay HAS been changed. I'm not so much concerned that the class didn't get faster, I wasn't hoping for anything beyond a temporary GL4 anyway, what I am complaining about is making the job slower; thats 2 completely different things.

And for me that is what Monk, at its core, is and should be; hit fast but for lower numbers and rely heavily on positionals. Sure RoF is not the end of the world but it goes completely against what the job is at its core.

[Ariomi]

You see thats my exact problem, the core identity and gameplay HAS been changed.

Not really. For the core identity to have changed, the class would have to be much more different. For example, Summoner spends very little time applying dots now. They got rid of Bio 1 and Shadowflare is an Ogcd, Dot's take a maximum of 2.5 seconds to apply, and Tri Disaster applies them anyway.

The core gameplay of Monk, has not changed. You still bootshine, twin snakes, snap punch. The only thing that "Changed" is you got a buff that was stylized in a way you don't like. The class is more or less completely the same if you choose not to use riddle of fire.

[Xau]

snip

it had changed, on arr and hw monk had 2 dots, 3 if we count fracture, now we have one, what this means? we do not have to watch the debuffs since is all muscle memory, and by doing so, our rotation becomes 100% static, you know when your buffs and debuffs falls down, and when you need to renew them again whit no need of watch the timers, and positionals? same, muscle memory, after a while you know where you need to hit each skill, so the only enjoable thing we have now is... speed? nope, again, it is robbed to us thanks to riddle of fire, basically monk it is boring because we got robbed of stuff what made the job interesting, and sb skills do not help whit that

and let's not exclude the fact what the dev team said about removing useless skills, yet monk got almost nothing of that, we still keep the useless skills meanwhile they removed the ones what made the job more interesting and fun

[Ariomi]

it had changed, on arr and hw monk had 2 dots, 3 if we count fracture, now we have one, what this means?
and let's not exclude the fact what the dev team said about removing useless skills, yet monk got almost nothing of that, we still keep the useless skills meanwhile they removed the ones what made the job more interesting and fun

Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.


Most classes had the same treatment. Dark Knights lost scourge, Ninjas lost Mutilate. Warriors lost their enhanced fracture as well as monk. Dragoons lost phlebotomize and fracture. Summoners and scholars lost Bio.

So when you say the class lost it's identity, you are absolutely wrong. It lost one dot, and one cross class dot. Every class lost cross class skills that made it feel better. Machinists lost Hawk Eye, Raging strikes and quite a few other skills that just increased their damage by 15-20% each per skill.

Monk's bread and butter was not changed. You lost one dot, that you used maybe every 30 seconds. At most you used it made 10 times during a fight. And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. Whm's Red Mage's and Summoner's Bind is good for what exactly? The stun is useful in solo. Physic on Summoner at level 70 replenishes 500 hp or right around 1% of their hp.

[Xeinon]

And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. .

Monk is still the class with the most useless skills, SB didn't address this whatsoever and made it worse if anything

One Ilm punch had a guaranteed stun added, yes, but keep in mind that its bound to a specific form so you can only use it every 3rd GCD which makes it extremely unreliable.
Arm of the destroyer still has a way too high TP cost for its potency.
Fist stances are basically obsolete, you're still in FoF 99% of the time, 1% being the time you're in FoE because of RoE. SE's sad attempt to make any other stance viable didn't change anything.
Tornado kick was already extremely niche but with RoE it sees even less use.
Purification is also completely useless since running out of TP is practically impossible now.

Thats 7 skills you never use.

[echo78]

Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.

Fracture was 220 potency and was a DPS gain. It was monk's third highest potency GCD. Even saying "fracture was arguably a DPS loss" proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Monk has become an extremely dull job without TOD and fracture. Knowing when to apply fracture with tod/demolish/dragon kick/snakes timers was a huge part of what made monk interesting and fun.

[Xau]

Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.
Most classes had the same treatment. Dark Knights lost scourge, Ninjas lost Mutilate. Warriors lost their enhanced fracture as well as monk. Dragoons lost phlebotomize and fracture. Summoners and scholars lost Bio.

So when you say the class lost it's identity, you are absolutely wrong. It lost one dot, and one cross class dot. Every class lost cross class skills that made it feel better. Machinists lost Hawk Eye, Raging strikes and quite a few other skills that just increased their damage by 15-20% each per skill.

Monk's bread and butter was not changed. You lost one dot, that you used maybe every 30 seconds. At most you used it made 10 times during a fight. And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. Whm's Red Mage's and Summoner's Bind is good for what exactly? The stun is useful in solo. Physic on Summoner at level 70 replenishes 500 hp or right around 1% of their hp.

this job as i said before, is not fun as how it is now(for us monk veterans), is hellish monotonous, there is no variation at all on how it plays, nothing what makes it interesting, all the job has gets memorizated and we do not need to watch for any variation, and the only variation we have does not even requires to be watched because we hear a *ding* for when is ready to be used, just look at any of the jobs you mentioned, they got removed some skills yes, but at the same time they got stuff what enhanced their playstile further, to make it more fun, monk got anything of that?, not really, even worse we didn't got any new attack, just depend even more on TFC, what now is linked to a double rng mechanic(get crits on your weaponskills to get a chance to get a chakra stack) and as well linked to another rng mechanic(brotherhood, 30% chance to get chakra stacks from any party member weaponskills), we have one of the slowest aoes the game has since we need to use single target in between arm of the destroyer(only useful when there are 7 or more targets) and rockbreaker, we have the fists what has no reason to exist, they could have been become traits even, since there is no reason to use fists of earth or fists of wind at all, one ilm punch is outright useless, even the role skill leg sweep is more usefull, why? one ilm punch requires the raptor form to use it, making it a unreliable stun skill, riddle of fire makes the playstile of monk boring because it slow us down, when monk is all about hit weak, and hit fast, no one asked for a skill what traded speed for dmg, even worse, perfect balance recast time didn't got reduced, whit a redution it might get a dps increase probably(because of tornado kick, but they can change the dmg tornado kick do if they do that), just look at the other jobs what has some kind of timer, they can recover it whit a somewhat ease(excluding dragoon life of dragon)

i am not saying this job is at the worst place, since there are other jobs on worst spots, like sumnoner, but that do not forbidden what the devs could make some(even if they are small) changes, something what the devs do not want to acknowledge the fact what monk needs changes to make it more fun

so i am sure you don't play monk at all, so dunno why you are even here, you will never understand why so many people wants this job to get rightful changes, so either just stop of be here, since almost everyone will disagree whit you or just start to play monk enough to understand the issues this job has

Anyway, I'd love to see GL4 added to MNK but I can't imagine the dev's changing anything with MNK until 5.0. If 3.0 and 4.0 were any indication, its probably not worth getting your hopes up for GL4 in 5.0...

i agree, i doubt the devs will do any change to this job, and we will have to wait another 2 years to see any change