Is Fordola the monster Lyse says she is?

[Xie_Belvoule]

I find all this persecution of Fordola very interesting. History is written by the victors and I can only imagine how it would paint a butcher like Lyse. A violent, self righteous barbarian who butchered her own countrymen in the name of her radical ideaology.

The answer to the OPs question is no, she's no monster, she simply lost. If she had won then Frodola would have been celebrated as a hero who defended Ala Mhigo against violent extremists and Lyse would have been the butcher carted off to face charges for killing her own fellow Ala Mhigans.

[VargasVermillion]

Citizenship does seem to be something that can be inherited based on the dialogue of the indolent imperial in mor dhona, he mentions how he only become a soldier because his mother told him to "make something of himself like his father". This implies that his father earned the family citizenship and the mother probably thinks the son is spoiled by that and made him enlist. Too bad for him the 14th is essentially in exile. Speaking of the 14th are they still hanging around those castras? what is to be done with them?

[Wyssahtyn]

They're still occupying strategically significant fortified positions within Eorzea, so I find it difficult to believe that Garlemald abandoned them wholesale, particularly with the XIVth's leadership gone.

[Theodric]

I remember Thancred and Krile infiltrating Castrum Meridianum in one of the 3.0 patches and it was still manned by Imperial soldiers. Given that this took place after Gaius' defeat it suggests that even with the inner area blowing up the remaining structures were not fully cleared out. If it wasn't for that particular scene I would have assumed that each Castrum had been cleared out entirely as a consequence of Operation Archon and that seeing enemies there in the game world was just a case of the 2.0 areas simply not being updated.

[Rocl]

They're still occupying strategically significant fortified positions within Eorzea, so I find it difficult to believe that Garlemald abandoned them wholesale, particularly with the XIVth's leadership gone.

Wasn't there some sidequest or 2.X main scenario quest (maybe even the 3.X MSQ Theodric mentions) where they say something to the effect that the XIVth Legion has pretty much been reduced to banditry to survive? I was also more or less under the impression Garlemald stopped supporting the XIVth before or during the beginning of ARR as Gaius was 'rogue.'

[Theodric]

Wasn't there some sidequest or 2.X main scenario quest (maybe even the 3.X MSQ Theodric mentions) where they say something to the effect that the XIVth Legion has pretty much been reduced to banditry to survive? I was also more or less under the impression Garlemald stopped supporting the XIVth before or during the beginning of ARR as Gaius was 'rogue.'

It might have been around the same time that Eline Roaille sought to break free of captivity and flee in the direction of Castrum Meridianum?

[Cilia]

Given what we know of how the Garleans in Ala Mhigo brutalised the population, to what extent can we really say that Fordola — and the Skulls, and all the Ala Mhigans who worked with the Empire — are completely and personally to blame for her actions?

Make no mistake: Fordola is culpable for her crimes.

The question at stake is the degree to which she's culpable.

To me, it would be an injustice if her circumstances are not taken into consideration, when the time finally comes to mull over her inevitable sentence.

I fully understand that Fordola was in crappy circumstances. I understand that groupthink influences decision making.

I don't think Fordola is completely to blame for her actions (she's a soldier in the military), but I do feel she is personally responsible for it. At the end of the day, she was the one who gave the order to fire - she says so herself.

Correcting myself, I wouldn't quite say that Fordola is a monster. She is, however, a tragically misguided soldier who willingly relinquished her free will to a psychopathic tyrant in service to her own warped ideal due to believing that ideal alone was the only future for her country despite the vast majority of said country's populace wanting nothing to do with that ideal. (Nuanced enough? /sarcasm?) Hope in Ala Mhigan freedom as Imperial province isn't the only hope there is; it's just the only hope Fordola allows herself, for whatever reason.

(And might I just say that as an ex-soldier I'm pretty terrified to think about the possibility of comrades turning artillery fire on one another?)

I don't think Fordola should be killed for what she did. She should live; that's the true punishment. Whatever she chooses to do with that life is her decision, but if she intends to continue attacking anyone who disagrees with her vision of an Imperial Ala Mhigo (as opposed to Ala Mhigan independence) prison is the only place she should be.

Wasn't there some sidequest or 2.X main scenario quest (maybe even the 3.X MSQ Theodric mentions) where they say something to the effect that the XIVth Legion has pretty much been reduced to banditry to survive? I was also more or less under the impression Garlemald stopped supporting the XIVth before or during the beginning of ARR as Gaius was 'rogue.'

When first appearing during the Crystal Tower storyline, Nero explains that he can't go back to Garlemald because the XIVth went rogue and have all been marked for death as a consequence. That makes it... pretty clear the Empire (as a sovereign nation) isn't particularly concerned with what happens to them.

[YianKutku]

Speaking of the 14th are they still hanging around those castras? what is to be done with them?

The game still has elements of some Imperial Legion hanging around the various castras, identified only by their cohort number. In the case of ARR castras, there is no indication that these are anything other than XIVth Legion. (Castrum Abania is obviously XIIth, and Castrum Solus is VIth.)

Considering these areas include Larkscall in East Shroud, where the nearest castrum is Castrum Oriens, I can only assume this is a case of the game world not being updated to match story progression.

However, there's a mission in the 50-60 RDM questline where you're supposed to create a distraction so your allies can infiltrate Castrum Meridianum to steal records. The RDM questline has dialogue changes depending on how far into the Stormblood storyline you've progressed, which can be anywhere from "not started at all" to "finished and liberated Ala Mhigo". And RDM's unlock only requires a level 50 character, with no quest requirements (that I know of).

So it's entirely possible that this RDM raid on Castrum Meridianum could have taken place after Gaius's and Zenos's demise, or after Gaius's demise but the WoL is revisiting Eorzea just to unlock RDM, or directly after Gaius's demise and how Ultima Weapon blew up the entire Praetorium inside Castrum Meridianum, or even before the whole Ultima Weapon mess. Theoretically it might be possible to have levelled a character and gotten to that RDM quest before even killing our first Primal?

In all cases, Castrum Meridianum is organized enough to send out a quick response force, including Magitek armour, to our heavy knocking on the door, and for us to use that organization against them by acting as a decoy. This makes the most sense before Ultima Weapon. This makes a bit of sense long after Ultima Weapon, where we suspend disbelief and assume they've had time to regroup. This makes the least sense directly after Ultima Weapon, because they should be dealing with a major part of their base having been wiped out by Ultima.

[TinyRedLeaf]

[Fordola] is no monster, she simply lost. If she had won then Frodola would have been celebrated as a hero who defended Ala Mhigo against violent extremists and Lyse would have been the butcher carted off to face charges for killing her own fellow Ala Mhigans.

This is a fallacious argument that needs to be robustly addressed.

Basically, it's an appeal to victor's justice.

(1)
If we were to take this argument to its logical conclusion, virtually any atrocity — in-game or in real-life — can be justified and waved away, as long as one emerges the "winner".

First of all, let's be clear: A narrative of events is not the same as the actual events.

If, even by a twist of fate, the Garleans defeated the Alliance, and Fordola survived to be declared a hero, it doesn't change the fact that she personally and knowingly ordered artillery fire upon her own troops. Troops who had no choice in the matter, regardless of what Fordola may choose to tell herself.

So, let's not confuse the record of the fact, with the fact itself.

Indeed, if it were indeed the case that the historical record is deliberately written to hide or obsure Fordola's actions, then we actually have two crimes to deal with: Fordola's order at Castrum Abania, and the lie used to cover up her deed.

(2)
Secondly, I would argue that it's nonsensical or — at the very least — premature to level the charge of victor's justice on the Resistance.

In the first place: What comparable atrocities have the Alliance committed? None. Or, if one is less inclined to be generous, not yet.

Show me an instance in the game where Alliance soldiers killed their own comrades, or massacred defenceless civilians, or summarily executed enemy troops who have surrendered.

Simply put, there has been no such incident. So, one simply cannot equate the Garleans with the Alliance when it comes to war conduct. There is absolutely no equivalence.

That being the case, the Alliance has nothing to hide. And there's certainly no factual justification for describing Lyse as a "butcher", "self-righteous barbarian".

Don't confuse propaganda and or "alternative facts" with the truth. Admittedly, this can be very hard for some people to grasp, but a lie is a lie, unless proven otherwise.

Of course, we haven't even begun the 4.x patch cycle, so who knows how the story will develop?

Perhaps Lyse would turn out to be a monumental failure of a leader, and restive elements within the Ala Mhigans would exploit her weaknesses to fan discontent. Perhaps Ala Mhigans still loyal to the Empire would provoke Resistance soldiers into brutalising the population just as the Garleans had done.

And then perhaps, some misguided fool may devise propaganda to hide the crimes and paint the Resistance in better light.

And perhaps none of this will happen. We don't know, and we won't know until we see it happen.

Until then, there is absolutely no basis to claim that the Alliance will impose "victor's justice" on war criminals like Fordola.

[Eyvhokan]

The one defining thing is her firing on her own.

Fordola firing on her own troops is what will haunt her for the rest of her life. Even if Lyse, the Ala Mhigan resistance, the Ala Mhigans who the skulls persecutes all forgive her, I don't think she will forgive herself for that.

She still lists their names off and remembers them. That guilt will weigh heavily on her (unlike with someone like Yotsuyu who seems to be a complete psychopath and doesn't seem to have remorse for anything).

That is the betrayal and kinslayer, as the skulls were her kin. Meffrid and the resistance were enemy combatants.