Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Remedi]

Honestly that was more of a joke born, from my pugs experience in v3s. TBH V3s is one of those fights were in a pug the general dps would be the least of my concern

edit: BTW when I was getting a party for my weekly v2s kill I ran into a group that kicked me because 2 BLMs were not good for the dps (that's before even starting mind you), funny since I got the clear with a party where there was another BLM soon after

[Aana]

DPS have had EZ street forever in this game. The larger the group, the easier it is to hide. How do you find the slacker DPS in a 24 man group? GL. But you can identify which of the 3 tanks is slacking/sucks. Everyone knows that feeling of watching your HP drop from unavoidable raid damage (or heaven forbid as a tank) and just hoping someone cures you to no avail.

I have been in a great many pugs where we get to the end of the fight and fail the DPS check a couple times and the party just says "DPS check fail" and disbands. You know what happens if its a Tank or Healer check fail? They get kicked and replaced. DPS check fail? Disband the whole party instead of finding the weak links.

With all the enmity tools floating around now, staying under the raider is easier than ever.

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes. When I put that little attention as a tank (pull 3 mobs at a time, slow to pick up adds etc) people complain. DPS I get coms and get to watch Netflix.

You are flatly ignorant or delusional if you place the scrutiny of DPS on the same plane as tanks and healers are under.

[AxiomPITCH]

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes.

The funny part is, that's still better than half of the random DPS you meet in DF. At least you know you have a rotation to screw up.

[Jijifli]

Snip

I want to build on that a bit. I have all 3 roles levels up to 70, in fact, a melee and caster dps just as an extra part. When leveling my PLD I noticed something very interesting. Despite my efforts of cooldowns to give healers more dps time, as well as doing as much damage as my job allowed me to, I'd still get these runs that were really long. Due to the job guage changes, it's even harder to tell now what dps is messing up. I can't see my MNK's stacks. I can't see if NIN has huton or not. I can't tell if SMN is running Aetherflow unless I check for Dreadwyrm trance.

It makes the runs slower, and my runs are generally faster when I go as a dps, because then I'm sure at least one is doing it. In fact, I have an extra fun story. 3.1 expert roulettes, I'd keep getting dps (usually a drg) that had full vit accessories. Long runs. I had to stop playing my ast and go blm just so that the runs weren't slow as hell.

[RichardButte]

DPS have had EZ street forever in this game. The larger the group, the easier it is to hide. How do you find the slacker DPS in a 24 man group? GL. But you can identify which of the 3 tanks is slacking/sucks. Everyone knows that feeling of watching your HP drop from unavoidable raid damage (or heaven forbid as a tank) and just hoping someone cures you to no avail.

I have been in a great many pugs where we get to the end of the fight and fail the DPS check a couple times and the party just says "DPS check fail" and disbands. You know what happens if its a Tank or Healer check fail? They get kicked and replaced. DPS check fail? Disband the whole party instead of finding the weak links.

With all the enmity tools floating around now, staying under the raider is easier than ever.

Also, as someone who has been playing both tanks and DPS since ARR in every piece of content, when I need to run a dungeon but REALLY don't want to and watch Netflix/Half ass through it, I don't go on Drk or War. I go hit 1-2 aoe buttons on drg or another DPS. Screw up my rotations on bosses. Still get a com sometimes. When I put that little attention as a tank (pull 3 mobs at a time, slow to pick up adds etc) people complain. DPS I get coms and get to watch Netflix.

You are flatly ignorant or delusional if you place the scrutiny of DPS on the same plane as tanks and healers are under.

Great post, but the bolded part in particular highlights exactly how awful this problem is.

It is not, nor will it EVER, be fair to healers and tanks that they have mechanics in the game that allow players to accurately judge their performance but DPS do not.

Either give us the tools to gauge the performance of DPS players or make it even by adding in mechanics that obfuscate the performance of tanks and healers.

[KaivaC]

RichardButte casts /Verraise

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

To be perfectly honest, the reason Tank and Healer are under heavier scrutiny, is because they are essential roles. You can limp by with less DPS or even just the Tank and Healer for a bit, but if you lose either your Tank or Healer (and can't get them back up) then you just lost the fight.

Also, when you have a bad Tank or Healer, you can usually tell right away. DPS you can't really tell until you're further in the duty. So, there's that...

In short, I agree that the microscope is on those two jobs, but there's a reason for it. DPS are literally a dime a dozen. However, depending on the duty, the microscope can just as easily fall on them--and often does, only there is less hesitation to kicking a DPS than there is for kicking a Healer or Tank (especially Tank).

So I guess... welcome to becoming expendable?

Healing may be a thankless job but it also has more Job security. Lol.

[Zeonx]

Not all dungeons are supposed to go perfectly the way you want.

Failure is supposed to be there, you aren't supposed to have hand outs.

If you won everything every time it would be a game it would be more like level syncing go in kill get out, I want the best possible team with no faults no way to lose and I don't have to help out the guy that's having a hard time because I want to get boosted by a better player and you can claim you are just as good but always mess up and get through it just fine but because your DPS is great you don't see it as a set back.

Just like if someone had Low DPS even if they were the last one who die and knew the mechanics and everyone else died i am positive the blame will still go his way and I ain't talking about timed rage KO's

[Ayer2015]

The attacks for each class are distinctive enough that if you've played them or done some research on them, you'll know whether or not someone is doing their rotation properly.

I'm not playing and analyzing every job just so I can pick out the player who don't pull their weight.....

[Lilseph]

Not all dungeons are supposed to go perfectly the way you want.

I thought the point of this thread was that DPS don't have any in-game indicator of their performance. Whereas both tanks and healers do, because when these fail, it's truly evident. No mitigation, no aggro, no healing, no support. How can you tell in a party of 8 what DPS is holding the group back? This game could use some official DPS meter support.

Yeah, players will be bad and they couldn't care less because they can get away with it. There are no numbers, no nothing that straight tells you "Hey, that DRG over there... he is doing less DPS than the tank".

Sure, you can watch their rotations, see the animations and sound cues... but that will require you to know all the jobs' rotations and moves. Why would you put that extra responsability on your shoulders? Like stated among the first posts, it's the game's fault for not providing the needed tools. People using ACT are powerless because, if they say something about it, they will get inmediatly reported by any b**thurt player. Not because it's against the ToS (unless you're one of these online paladins of "justice"), but because your feelings were hurt.