Is this what balance looks like?

[OmegaStrongtan]

I feel like this is a massive problem for all the ARR jobs.
I think they focused too much on giving them drawbacks rather than making it fun and fluid to play.

I mean, just look at SAM and RDM vs DRG/Monk and BLM. You're focusing more on upkeeping these extremely punishing buffs rather than simply playing the job and having things flow naturally like with the new SB jobs and most of the HW jobs.

This is a good point. Thinking about it: There is at least one thing I absolutely hate for most ARR classes.

[MauvaisOeil]

I agree they seems to have taken on the "let's keep things like they are and just add a few mechanics to matter". But the design of some jobs, especially to me WHM and DRG, is quite obsolete.

[iluvOP]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

[MauvaisOeil]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

I have to disagree on the fact: Here and today is 2 month into a brand new expansion. If things sucks now, they aren't part of "a future grand scheme" but of 22 month of crappy gameplay.

[Neela]

It was already stated he stops for nuking even during movement.

If you would play smn yourself you would actually know that his movement delays his response very hard - i like statements like yours which doesnt make a point at all.

[MauvaisOeil]

If you would play smn yourself you would actually know that his movement delays his response very hard - i like statements like yours which doesnt make a point at all.

I'm simply referring to an other topic where this specific point has been made. Maybe you should just tone down.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm impressed with the results. Damage-wise, the jobs are balanced.

Now, some of the posters here have said things are not balanced based on the differences between the number of players of the various jobs. I can only answer that different people like different things.

BUT, there is validity to the argument. Machinists and Summoners are both way too underplayed. This points out that there is something about these classes which makes them less popular.

Is it overcomplexity? An unpopular job mechanic? Community bias?

I don't know. I haven't played Summoner much and Machinist is a HW job and I'm not there yet. Yeah, I'm a slacker.

Anyhow, experienced players of these classes will have to lay out their observations before the developers and the rest of the community should support their requests for the fixing of these two jobs. It does no one any good when two jobs sit more or less in the garbage bin. Something must be done to correct this issue.


Something is really out of whack here.

[Eir_Z]

It's probably a combination of flavor of the month for SAM & RDM, a completely reworked and coherent BRD, and a flopped rework for two classes that have very little reward for how complex/punishing they are.

I think it's going to be tough for SE to adjust SMN & MCH enough to attract players in any significant numbers unless they overpower the jobs.

[OmegaStrongtan]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

I don't have much fun in situations where my GL falls off and I have to start at 0 at the next pull.

[NovaBismarck]

I agree with Kacho about fixes. It's a fair point, though in general some classes always attract more players. Smn had lower numbered even back in FFXI; I got used to it then. Everyone who played smn didn't jump ship on smn because rdm was the new shiny thing. SE forced many of us out of it, especially casuals. The clunky AI, aetherflow issues, the death penalty on bahamut, and huge bahamut blocking the party are just a couple of the more annoying issues. My static doesn't want me to run smn and I get tired of pugging and have people complain about bahamut, especially where stack is needed. Who blames them for hating him? I certainly do not. I didn't quit smn to go onto something better. SMN is in an odd spot, less damage than blm, and less utility than rdm but better damage potential. Number-wise, I'm sure it's where it should be but overall it's lacking. Personally, I'd like to see SE really focus on making sure that the actual pet abilities are stellar, it's what smn has to offer that is unique. After they fix the interface issues.