What's with all these people single-targetting during big pulls in dungeons?

[TaleraRistain]

TankHunter678, come be my tank? Pretty please?

In regards to groups sometimes having those mobs you need to burn rather than AoE, the archers at the beginning of Baelsar's Wall are a perfect example of this. When that dungeon first came out, those DoTs hurt like hell and nobody was getting them down so they were re-applied as fast as I could clear them. They weren't the sort of thing you could just heal through. They were that nasty. When I had groups who did focus those down first, big pulls in that area got a lot easier on my MP.

[AlexionSkylark]

Some classes need a higher threshold for AoE to compensate. Lets take my class, RDM, as an example:

A single target normal rotation achieves 140~160 PPS (potency per second), while AoE rotation achieves ~47.5 PPS per enemy (APPROXIMATELY, Contre-Sixte's dmg mechanic makes it next to impossible to achieve a "per enemy" number. That being said, you need AT LEAST 4 mobs in the pull for the AoE rotation to even START compensating. From the top of my head, I remember MNKs have a much higher threshold, cuz their AoE skills sucks badly. Others may follow.

HAVING AoE skills doesn't mean having an EFFECTIVE AoE rotation. Not to mention that enemies dying faster, instead of the entire pull dying together means less dmg on the tank, which leads to higher BOTH tank and healer DPS. All that needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating. In some party comps, it's even COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to do big pulls, a fact that few tanks are even aware of.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Yep, there are always exceptions that you as a DD need to pay attention to. As you said, some enemies that are generally more dangerous need to go down as soon as possible. Additionally, if you notice that there are still more than three enemies still alive but your TP is dipping into the ~200s with your TP recovery tools unavailable, it's best to swap over to using your Single Target attacks while relying on your Tp-less costing oGCDs to compensate while your TP recovers i.e. Elixir Field, Gierskogul, and Hellfrog Medium.

Good point!

[Dameron]

As a DRG, I really don't know what people want of me.

1. I can choose not to AoE, and instead quickly burn down the priority targets as fast as possible. Yet people will give me hate for not AoEing with my rediculously expensive frontal cone that has almost negligible Potency.

2. I can choose to AoE, and burn through all of my TP and Invigorate before even the first pull is dead, and people will give me hate for having bad DPS due to having no TP and nobody to Goad me.

You can't win.

[Singularity]

Alright, since you're knowledgeable on this, wonder if I can pick your brain on RDM specifically. What I was advised to do was use Scatter followed by Verthunder/Veraero (to allow for the Verflare/Verholy if you get to a single target, such as a boss, for when you need to melee). But in doing so, I've found I'm often proccing Verfire/Verstone Ready. Is the best option to allow the buff to drop, or should you keep weaving them in? Currently, to account for what I think is a mild OCD, I've been using the procs (which makes Impactful a pain in the backside). But would it be better to do the one, and then follow it up with basic Scatter spam and allowing the buffs to drop if it comes down to it? Or is it better to use the procs to allow for faster generation of Black/White mana, for more melee AoE combos? This is where I really fall apart with RDM.

Apologies if you specifically wanted an answer from Cold_Raven, figured I could be helpful here.

How to generate mana:

- If you have two or fewer targets, just single-target - Scatter has less potency than even Jolt II in this situation.
- If you have four or more targets, just spam Scatter - Scatter has 400+ potency - more than any attack outside of the melee combo (and melee doesn't happen often enough to make up 100 potency per GCD).
- If you have exactly three targets, use Scatter -> Veraero -> Scatter -> Verthunder etc... - Scatter has equal potency to Veraero/Verthunder but generates only 6 mana (8.25 on average taking into account Enhanced Scatter procs) instead of 11. More mana means you can use E. Moulinet more often. Ignore the Verstone/Verfire procs - you are losing 30 potency for a gain of only 0.75 mana (7.5 potency when converted through E. Moulinet) if you use one.

How to spend mana:

- If you have two or fewer targets, E. Moulinet delivers 6.666... potency per mana, The single-target melee combo delivers 9.5 (taking into account that it lets you finish with Verholy/Verflare) so you should use the single-target combo.
- If you have three or more targets, E. Moulinet delivers 10 potency per mana, so you should just try to use it as much as possible.


In every situation, keep all your damage-dealing oGCDs on cooldown.

[Paladinleeds]

Apologies if you specifically wanted an answer from Cold_Raven, figured I could be helpful here.

Nah, that's fine. I only asked Cold_Raven because it seemed like he really knew his stuff. Anyone who could give me a good solid answer (such as yourself), was more than welcome to lend a hand here. I'll definitely bear that in mind for future. However, if I have exactly three targets during the "generate mana" phase, how would one deal with Verfire/Verstone procs?

[KalinOrthos]

I can tell you why I don't spam AoEs as a samurai: I would actually like to be able to attack. Fuga -> Mangetsu/Oka is a combo that flows pretty well, but it's such a massive drain on my TP for not nearly as effective damage l, because of falloff, as, say, my bard, who can just put up Mage's Balled, throw out some DoTs, and have unlimited Rain of Death. Now, of course I use Kyuten and Tenka Goken when available, but without a TP generating ability, just spamming my AoE combo means I last for about 20 seconds.

[Singularity]

Nah, that's fine. I only asked Cold_Raven because it seemed like he really knew his stuff. Anyone who could give me a good solid answer (such as yourself), was more than welcome to lend a hand here. I'll definitely bear that in mind for future. However, if I have exactly three targets during the "generate mana" phase, how would one deal with Verfire/Verstone procs?

Oops, sorry I went back and edited that in. Ignore the Verstone/Verfire procs - you are losing 30 potency (vs. a Scatter) for a gain of only 0.75 mana (7.5 potency when converted through E. Moulinet) if you use one.

[sonicadventures]

I dunno what sparked this topic but as a monk main I try to aoe when ther's 4 plus. But Invig and Pure only go so far, and 9 times out of 10 Im the only one aoeing. so I get TP death. Noone goads either and since you can't goad yourself I can se why alot of DPS don't aoe. Plus apparently people tell others not too in game. I had a few people yell at me to stop aoeing alot lately. And yes I learned to no run out of TP but I still got yelled and even laughed at. " WHAT? You're not posted to spam AOEs" and these were mentors telling me this. I choose to aoe when I can but if people hear this from many people it's no wonder why alot don't. My only point is I don't think it's so much the DPS players being lazy, but other peopel telling them not too, which confuses people since you have topics like this one. So in short.. everyone needs to come to the same page and agree on whats what.. otherwise this issue and many others will never be fixed. Either that or SE LET ME GOAD MYSELF PLEASE!!

[Artemiz]

Maybe I'm just weird but whenever I play DPS roles I enjoy the AoE pulls, the more the merrier.

As a DRG, I really don't know what people want of me.

1. I can choose not to AoE, and instead quickly burn down the priority targets as fast as possible. Yet people will give me hate for not AoEing with my rediculously expensive frontal cone that has almost negligible Potency.

2. I can choose to AoE, and burn through all of my TP and Invigorate before even the first pull is dead, and people will give me hate for having bad DPS due to having no TP and nobody to Goad me.

You can't win.

There are a few odd pulls here and there which the DPS should focus certain targets first (bombs, summoners etc...) Most of the time though it's just not necessary and killing the whole pack quicker is what most people prefer.

If you're running out of TP on the first pull even after invigorate then the chances are your fellow DPS is either bad or single target killing. If both DPS AoE when appropriate, especially if one is a has good AoE such as BLM or SMN then TP shouldn't be an issue.