SCH adlo and succor

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I addressed Adlo/Succor because that is what this thread is for. C:

As it stands SCH is being more focused on AF and burst healing, so we can only see if they decide to change that or not in 4.1. Regardless of that, it doesn't change the fact that moves like A.Benefic on N.AST are way too rewarding for the zero skill required to use it.

[AlphaSonic]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I addressed Adlo/Succor because that is what this thread is for. C:

As it stands SCH is being more focused on AF and burst healing, so we can only see if they decide to change that or not in 4.1. Regardless of that, it doesn't change the fact that moves like A.Benefic on N.AST are way too rewarding for the zero skill required to use it.

Again, you are ignoring all the kit. A.Benefic is really easy to use, yes. How about Earthly Star, probably the most difficult healing CD to use in this game? How about Indom, 1 click 500 potency AoE Heal. You forget about the fact that A.Helios has higher cast time than Succor.

[Supersun]

You aren't taking into consideration Scholar's healing kit.

Aldo isn't just the equivalent of A.Benefict but also the equivalent of CureII/Benefict II when Scholar needs a more powerful heal,...one that costs 1,800 MP...

(That's half the price of a Raise)

I mean I know everyone is scared of Scholar becoming even half viable, but a 600 potency cure / 300 potency shield...for 1,800 MP...

[AlphaSonic]

You are the one not taking into consideration both healers healing kits.

That Adlo costs 1800 MP doesn't change the fact that SCH can heal every single fight in this game. The only problem I find with SCH is the awkward interaction between Dissipation and Fey Union.

Is there any problem in the fact that SCH powerful heal costs more than the other classes? Does it make you unable to clear anything? No, right? When you balance class you don't take just 1 skill and compare with another skill from another class that perform a similar action. You take all the kit into account and compare to the kit of the other class that performs a similar role.

For example, you've said it. When SCH needs an equivalent to cure II he spends more MP than AST or WHM. But when AST needs an instant oGCD AoE Heal? What is he supposed to do? Earthly Star? Not enough time to prepare it.
AST doesn't have any instant AoE heal. In case is needed and AST didn't prepare Earthly Star or precasted a Helios, it's done.

So I find this comparisons about shields stupid for 1 simple reason. You aren't taking all the kit into account. SCH has expensive shields, true. But they can be very effective and the best mitigation tools of this game. AST doesn't have any reliable AoE instant heal, but has some other tools that allow to perform this task. That's the beauty of each class. If it was for you everyone would have the same skills with a different animation and call it a day. That'd be boring.

[Archamgel]

How about Earthly Star, probably the most difficult healing CD to use in this game?

I know I have a strong prescription in glasses/contacts, but is this really what I'm reading? The fire and forget AoE heal that everyone and their dog knows to get in if they want healing (and to do Dmg to mobs) is difficult? I have more difficulty making Eos actually start Aetherpact than any possible difficulty from this skill. And that's before considering that it is almost as strong as Imdom before the 10secs healing buff to it.

[AlphaSonic]

I know I have a strong prescription in glasses/contacts, but is this really what I'm reading? The fire and forget AoE heal that everyone and their dog knows to get in if they want healing (and to do Dmg to mobs) is difficult? I have more difficulty making Eos actually start Aetherpact than any possible difficulty from this skill. And that's before considering that it is almost as strong as Imdom before the 10secs healing buff to it.

Less range, not instant, needs to be placed, needs to be timed to be fully effective, can be missed and overhealing if you put it early... Yes I think it's more difficult to use than Indom that is a 500 AoE potency heal use and forget for only 30 sec CD and 1 aetherflow.

[Vyriah]

Ugh, them again.

Where are all those SCH hater coming from, even ?
Yes, SCH have an extremly strong DoT every minute. And NocAST have a 345 spammable potency AoE heal they can throw above the 300 potency WHM one after their 260ish potency raid wide shield. With no CD.
Also they have a HoT with their dome for just 30 sec more CD, a good trade since it will always be reliable to the skill usage.

As a healer, AST is just plain stronger. Essential dignity is suffisant to heal want you want when you want and is actually stronger than exco if tanks gets really low. Indo is OP but eh, Earthly Star is even more especially in later fight. It can be (it actually is) used as a press to fire heal with less-than-a-helios-cast latency, it juste requiere two key press. Its range is actually pretty good, better than Cure 3.

SCH bring DPS (wich became quite tricky to handle with miasma 2) when the excess healing isn't needed but the second wheel heal is still something you want in your team. A well played WHM/SCH can bring the numbers to make for the absence of AST utility. But it doesn't mean SCH isn't broken, their succor shield for 3k for more than on tenth of your mana. It's the class base spell and you need largess to consider using it (wich would still make it weaker than AspHelios, btw).
Dissipation isn't even a matter as it's cast is way too high for what it does. Fairy being absent for 30 sec is a huge HPS loss, I'm not sure what you intend to heal while pressing this.

SCH instant heals were tweaked to the extreme because it would have been left out of raid otherwise and I think they're still a pretty risky pick for progress if there's no BRD arround. It's somehow playable, but doesn't work as a class.
And NocAST is just flat stronger heal wise, there's absolutly no room for discussion on that point. Their basic tools are stronger, it means everything when heavy raid damage is that constant. SCH CD are good, but there's a moment when you don't have CD anymore and it just doesn't work without Eos.
And I'm saying that because I'm playing both depending on team composition.

[AlphaSonic]

You should ask all those people that cleared O4S with SCH to teach you how to play SCH. Since you are having trouble with SCH. Maybe that's the problem the fact that it used to be OP and now it requires more than facerolling to play it effectively.

Hold on, I'm not denying there's problems with SCH. Mainly Dissipation and Fey Union. But that doesn't mean it's bad, because it's not bad, if it was, no one would even have attempted to clear O4S in the 1st week with SCH (Spoiler, they did one the first few clears of O4S was with a SCH)

[Vyriah]

What are you even talking about ?

[AlphaSonic]

What are you even talking about ?

You've said the class doesn't work. I'm saying that nobody has any problem clearing Omega Savage with SCH and some of the high parses from O4S have a SCH in the party.

That N.AST performs better as a shielder than SCH? Well bad luck, WHM used to be the regen healer and D.AST has more regens.