ALT DPS role for raiding?

[Finkledoodoo]

Twilight Trilogy

Was gonna tl;dr roflcopter you, but you seem cool...

Didn't forget about Drg, I'm sure op knows how to wait to be rezzed...

For Sam V Mnk, I'm on team Sam until I see the speed runs prove otherwise.

For Rdm, my comparison is between Rdm and Blm because they are the same slot. Anything I said about Mnk and Rdm was used in the context of comparing them to their high dps non-utility counterpart.

Meta was used like popularity. That may be my mistake. But from years of competitive play, I've found that meta was not always most effective, it was always most used. But I'll let it go. Replace my previous use of the word meta with popularity...

Brd and Mch seem close enough to me... I didn't get to do Alexander, I started in April...

You gotta pick man, you're saying that like, everything is meta other then blm and smn lol... There's only 4 spots in a raid team. name your big four already... I'm saying Rdm, Sam, Brd and Nin are the popular goto team... Maybe if I follow, you think Nin Mnk Brd Mch? I'm highly skeptical, like, really skeptical... Personally, I'm an independent kind of player, I'd rather run hard hitters with no utility and just try to play perfect...

I'm outta time though. Nice discussion guys.

[aleph_null]

Didn't forget about Drg, I'm sure op knows how to wait to be rezzed...

For Sam V Mnk, I'm on team Sam until I see the speed runs prove otherwise.

The current fastest kills for 4 out of 5 fights bring drg, only o2s fastest kill doesn't bring a drg (they have sam/mnk/nin/mch instead). When people say meta composition in this game it generally refers to the optimal speedkill composition, but currently most people aren't geared in BiS yet so it's still not clear yet. After a few more weeks more and more groups will attempt to speedkill and we'll see what the optimal composition is. For now it looks like drg/nin/brd have their guaranteed spots while the last spot is up for either mnk or mch, but this may change.

[Aomine1992]

I would have said healer or tank but then I re read the title lol but I would go with either RDM or BRD get the opposite Incase they need to shift ppl around and it's always good to be flexible currently I love my DRG but if need be I also tanked all the way up to V3s

I would avoid BLM unless you know fights 100% to know when you need to exactly move, dps wise they are better then RDM but moving is the key factor that makes them fall below RDM...SMN is just not a viable choice after V2s...MCH is good but BRD is still better :/...MNK is okay but it's pretty much the same thing as SAM...DRG is good but also is a melee and not the opposit of what you are already...And then NIN which is great but many many people already play nin lol

[Alistaire]

The current fastest kills for 4 out of 5 fights

Huh? Did they release the post-savage fight? Or you're counting o4s in 2 parts?

[HoLoFoNo]

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I already said my meta... DRG/NIN/BRD/MCH

But addressing your points I also said MNK isn't as bad as you thought and RDM isn't as good as you thought.

In this game, the fatal flaw of the DPS design is offensive utility. That is to say, trying to make classes have synergy is the main reason balance with this game is kinda messed up. While everything at least works, the best classes are going to be the classes that help each other the most. Before you were playing, back in late 3.0 there was a meme floating about: Delete MNK. MNK was the old SAM; the class that brought no offensive utility to the party but did the highest DPS. However its DPS wasn't enough to bring it over classes that contributed to the party (remember: tanks and healers also do DPS) and boosted the damage of everyone else. Also playing with a MNK was ass, you literally got no damage benefit from them being there while they got some from you.

So objectively and subjectively they didn't fit into a party. This situation is starting to be replicated with SAM. While the damage difference does make it more viable than MNK was, due to the design of the game it just doesn't get along with others, and you could have someone else that does slightly less dps but buffs the damage of the 7 other party members.

Speed runs HAVE proved otherwise. SAM is in less top kills than MNK, but as others have said gear isn't there yet so essentially at this point the fastest kills belong to the best geared players/players with the most time. Give it 2 more months and then the results will be set (but by that point a major rebalance will be happening).

The difference between MNK & SAM and RDM & BLM is not as similar as you would think. For one, SAM, BLM and MNK comprise what is essentially the 'big 3' which are the strongest 3 DPS damage wise and the difference between them and 4th place is quite a jump (actually since the SMN buffs, SMN has halved the gap but due to the low amount of players, this number is inflated somewhat by the loyalists who perfect the job). SAM to MNK is about 200 at the 99th percentile (according to fflogs) while BLM to RDM is about 400. This is a much bigger difference. For reference, MNK to RDM is about 300.

Honestly, when it comes to optimal comp, there are no slots. You just take the 4 strongest dps rDPS wise. But under normal circumstances you could say BRD can compete with MCH (this was much more of an equal comparison during 3.x, but they dropped the ball with MCH somewhat this time).

As a DRG, I really don't like playing with SAMs. I find it just unfair that they can live inside their own little bubble while people give them stuff but the don't give anything in return. If we are speaking objectively though, they do add dps to be useful for faster kills, but it may not be enough (multipliers get crazy when they stack).

[Finkledoodoo]

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K

Where can I look this stuff up? Clearly there is a hole in my research abilities...

[Tracewood]

I was a MNK main, but I'm probably going to go BRD full time.

Not sure what happened but the dev team really turned the job around since Heavensward. It's been so long since I had that kind of fun on that class. MNK might be the backup job but I'm going to be honest, most people prefer to go MNK/SAM/DRG over other classes.

[HoLoFoNo]

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...gregate=amount

You can check any percentile you want.

Delete MNK is a meme, probably find that shit around reddit or something idk

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/17

Here you can check the fastest kill of each of the current savage fights. You can see the comp by clicking on the team name.

When it comes to my information on the game design, this is from playing the game for 4 years. Synergy has always been a design issue where BRD is directly tethered to DRG so both classes have to be balanced not to be too good on their own or they would be exceptional with the other. When they introduced MCH instead of fixing it they made it worse, so now there are 3 classes which have to be balanced together. DRG is the only DPS that provides piercing resistance down while 3.5 dps use it (RDM uses it for their physical strikes). Even after nerfing it from 10% to 5% its still cancer. This is more like dependency and is just 1 example, point being that there is too much emphasis on classes helping others and so they are balancing classes personal output on that rather than playstyle and convenience/ease of use.

[Alistaire]

I'm still surprised they didn't just get rid of the slashing/piercing/blunt debuffs in 4.0 as part of their plan to simplify the game. As you've said, they cause nothing but trouble for BRD/MCH/DRG balancing, and they don't bring anything all that interesting to the game anyway.

[aleph_null]

Huh? Did they release the post-savage fight? Or you're counting o4s in 2 parts?

Yeah I count exdeath and neo exdeath separately, since they're like the faust fights in 3.x. I wouldn't be surprised if exdeath speedkill and neo exdeath speedkill use different composition just like faust z vs refurbisher (2 war instead of war + drk for faust, due to the short duration).