RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[Kabooa]

My math may be incorrect or some percents aren't where they should be, if it is, que sera sera. I haven't had to do intensive math for a couple years and I can't find the spreadsheet i calculated this out on.

Working through it, it makes sense, but we're basically saying the same amount, you just said it while including detail for the entire raid (My own left out healers and the Red Mage: Your target was 8, mine was 5)

However, .75% of 20,000 is still approximately 150 that belongs to the Red Mage, which must be added to their bottom line. That's why it's fairgame to consider. Embolden is damage, not utility.

Using those figures on 95th percentile bosses, where Black Mages range from 4200-4700, and Red Mages from 4200-4400, adding 150 of that to their rating puts them on similar levels, to the point where there's no true advantage of the Black Mage unless we move into caster heavy set ups, which don't really have the support that physical do. It's worth noting that going down in percentiles shows the natural gap closing before applying the 'Embolden' tax.

I need to be clear that I'm fine with damage of jobs being comparable all around, with the minimum being within their roles. But in the scenarios where this is the case, each Job should be bringing some form of non-damage/ mitigation utility. Just giving 'more damage' is a lazy and uninteresting way to fix things, because that just shifts around who's useful when.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Ah, so kinda sorta parallel thinking then. But still it's irritating seeing it as an argument piece for people who haven't done the math i.e. the average player/forum poster and don't understand the implications of what they're spouting.

[Kabooa]

Agreed, there's always accounting for player error, or just points where it may not be possible to get a good use of embolden. Situational scenarios though, the variables scale so much we have to take the average when looking at things, because otherwise you get Warriors and Ravana all over again.

Vercure is fine as is, on the topic of the thread though. In terms of equitable Black Mage utility, another discussion pointed towards Mana Shift as something that inherently is superior for the Black mage to utilize, and that it could be something removed from Role Utility and balanced around a Black Mage providing another person with MP.

That would provide tactical uses, from giving Healers a top off, to giving the Bard more Foe uptime, to feeding other casters so they can push harder (like Summoners and Ruin 3)

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Honestly I'd like to see BLM get a small magic damage vuln or a little more than just personal utility (Manawall, AM, BTL) SAM gets a slashing debuff for some reason on top of their own personal buffs. Double caster would be fun, but yeah so much physical damage synergy kinda shoots that one in the foot. I know my own use of Embolden is absolutely not optimal, I like to save it for my burst combo because I'm a terrible person and like my own explosions and sword slashes to be bigger. They definitely could give Mana Shift more to BLM and retool it a bit, I can only sometimes utilize it as RDM and don't even bother equipping it on SMN.

[Averax]

Vercure isn't even useful in a serious environment. In the uber casual content it's pretty great, but that's not what they balance around. In savage, your raid leader probably won't be too happy if you're throwing out vercure's instead of dpsing. Leave healing to the healers in group content.

Personally, i only use it when the tank pulls big and the healer is having trouble getting the tank back to manageable levels, and needs a small buffer between GCDs to get things in order. Or on myself if i just get raised.

Yoshi seems insistent on not touching it anyhow. It's in theme with the job and it's not too powerful, no reason to nerf it.

[AlphaFox]

Let me put it like this, if we HAVE to use vercure/verraise, there is something wrong if its outside of PotD. Inside I will enjoy a RDM's vercure all day but it also seems I go in often with no healers at all.

[lulunami]

Vercure is fun. PLD get Clemency. Do not nerf fun.

[RaizeGraymalkin]

No it really doesn't. Stop crying for SAM/RDM to be nerfed already.

[Joe777]

If there is anything RDM shouldn't have it is Verflare and Verholy. Flare and Holy are supposed to be out of a Red Mage's league, at least based on classic Red Mages.

Then again, so was Life spells...

[Remedi]

Not quite, Raise has been a RDM spell in several occasion, they do miss Araise (or life2).
It's true that flare and holy are a bit ehhhhhh however