The Legacy of Alexander and the Xaela [Spoilers]

[LystAP]

In effect, everything from the time Alexander returns Mide and Dayan to (exact date unknown) until the point when he actually does so is stuck in a temporal loop. Nothing within it can be changed - meaning yes, Mide, Dayan, Quickthinx, and even Alexander himself is stuck in and endless loop. They're all prisoners of time - we would be as well, if we didn't have an exit after defeating Alexander. It is kind of sad, but at least Mide and Dayan got to live out their lives in the past. Which is their future. (Don't think about it too hard.) It arguably makes Alexander himself quite pitiable, since despite having power over time and space he is more a prisoner of time than anyone else.

The history book Y'shtola provides following Alexander's defeat does mention Mide's distinctive blue hair, so it can be safely concluded that the blue hair was always a thing (since Mide was both a progenitor and the last survivor of the Hotgo). As for the face paint... can't account for that one, lol. The time loop's start is indeterminate - it exists in a "Time Zero" beyond our ability to observe. One can only speculate where and when it was set into motion, and how the events played out.

Who knows? Maybe the Xaela did use the Enigma Codex and information in it to help build the Dusk and Dawn Thrones, and other such things. Maybe they didn't. Mide and Dayan couldn't have stopped the Dotharl massacre - it's part of the time loop, and besides, they were likely in Eorzea when it happened, so they probably didn't even know about it.

The Garlean Empire is a very proud nation; I doubt they would have taken weaponsmithing advice from "savages" like the Hotgo. The Empire doesn't even want to go after the Steppe, for whatever reason. I would be very surprised if there were no gunblade designs in the Enigma Codex (it has cheese recipes, of all things, so...), and I would wager that if the Hotgo were using gunblades the design for said gunblade would be in the Codex. I'd need to rewatch the cutscenes with Mide and go get that weapon from Bardam's Mettle to see for myself; what class weapon is it? MCH?

I would think they knew of the massacre. In fact, the massacre may well be the event that made them desperate enough to try to summon Alexander as a primal. The Ascians ever excel at exploiting the desperate, as well as causing said desperation.

It is MCH. The weapon from the Mettle is called The Coming Storm, and it shares a model with another gun called Blue Steel from Stone Vigil, which shares the design with Mide's gun (which makes sense, probably a confiscated weapon from Ishgard's *history* with the Au Ra.)

The Hotgo is a tribe that shows up in the name generator, so there are a few PCs (me included) with Hotgo characters; whether or not Mide and Dayan were the last survivors is vague, given the Xaela predisposition to wander and the bit about survivors being away from the tribe. Thus, there is a measure of investment in seeing how their story plays out, if it continues. And with the Dotharl having such a presence, especially such positive one, it feels strange to think that they're the same tribe known for massacring an entire tribe (both combatants and non-combatants).

[PhantasticPanda]

It should be noted that exploiting Alexander's powers tremendously drains Hydaelyn of her aether. According to Dayan, who we know was trapped within Alexander's soul, Alexander went through countless calculations of different "best potential" future for the world, but it all ended with the same result; his continued existence would end Hydaelyn, and so began his orchestrated timeline of events that would ultimately lead Dayan and Mide to his core, and with their 'sacrifice', placed themselves and the primal in a time stasis. We can't really tell what sort of mindset Alexander truly has, other than him being summoned to create a better future, a perfect world. To which he can't. But maybe he was able to give both Mide and Dayan a future for themselves, to begin all over again as children in the past. That way, his hand didn't touch the future as he had placed his faith onto the warrior of light as the key to that better future.

I still believe that the start of events (not counting the whole birth of the Hotgo tribe), was starting at the massacre of the Hotgo. Desperation does tend to be abused by the Ascians to summon primals into the world. Maybe Alexander couldn't change this fate, because it require more of his power that he didn't wish to use to change the lives of all those affected, like the entire Hotgo tribe. While Mide and Dayan are stuck in a time loop, I think it was all Alexander could spare without changing the course of history to such an extent.

And to talk more on the Hotgo and the Dotharl. I believe the Hotgo would be one of the more "stronger" or "influential" tribes in a sense. Speaking with Dotharl NPC's and their behavior towards obviously weaker tribes (trading with the ... tribe in the cave, and ignoring the Mols as worthy of a fight), it seems that the Dotharl seek to fight and kill strong foes because that is when their soul would burn brightest and ensure their reincarnation. Even the child who died to the Hotgo in their previous life seemed to be proud of that fact and wants to become as strong as they once were. I really do hope they cover more Hotgo lore, seeing how half of it seems to be connected with the Dotharl with the other being inside of a whole raid.

[Cilia]

---

The Dotharl massacre of the Hotgo is only timed as "recent." Mide and Dayan were in Dravania and summoned Alexander what was it... three years ago? Their exact reasoning for summoning Alexander wasn't elaborated upon, to my knowledge, beyond the same reason the goblins gave (making a perfect world - the vision of what "perfect" meant was different though). Of course they didn't actually summon Alexander, but... time travel is confusing.

Hmm... well, those aren't gunblades of the same type the Empire uses. Those are emphasis on the gunblade; the Imperial version emphasizes the gunblade. Still, there are probably gunblade designs in the Codex.

While the Dotharl's massacre of the Hotgo is terrible, remember that they are Xaela; strength is the way of the Steppe. It's cultural thing.

[LystAP]

The Dotharl massacre of the Hotgo is only timed as "recent." Mide and Dayan were in Dravania and summoned Alexander what was it... three years ago? Their exact reasoning for summoning Alexander wasn't elaborated upon, to my knowledge, beyond the same reason the goblins gave (making a perfect world - the vision of what "perfect" meant was different though). Of course they didn't actually summon Alexander, but... time travel is confusing.

Hmm... well, those aren't gunblades of the same type the Empire uses. Those are emphasis on the gunblade; the Imperial version emphasizes the gunblade. Still, there are probably gunblade designs in the Codex.

While the Dotharl's massacre of the Hotgo is terrible, remember that they are Xaela; strength is the way of the Steppe. It's cultural thing.

Three years could be recent, but so could ten. It's unknown at the moment.

Mide and Dayan wanted to create a place that they could call home, and travel the world seeking knowledge - I recall this being mentioned in the Alexander quest chain - a home that could move with them, which makes sense considering the nomadic nature of the Xaela. They strove for the perfect world shared by the goblins, an ideal which was twisted by the Illuminati.

And there is a different from strength and wholesale slaughter. Other tribes have been attacked and defeated, but there are survivors - such as the Kahkol and the Qerel. The Dotharl do not appear to be a tribe that murders non-combatants, although that may be SE overemphasizing the tribe's positive aspects. It's just unknown at this point, although I'm hope that SE may mention it, considering the note of the massacre is just below the Dotharl's bit on the naming convention. It's the big elephant in the room when interacting with the Dotharl, especially in light of Magnai/Sadu's little ongoing comedy.

[KihtJakkya]

The Dotharl massacre of the Hotgo is only timed as "recent." Mide and Dayan were in Dravania and summoned Alexander what was it... three years ago? Their exact reasoning for summoning Alexander wasn't elaborated upon, to my knowledge, beyond the same reason the goblins gave (making a perfect world - the vision of what "perfect" meant was different though). Of course they didn't actually summon Alexander, but... time travel is confusing.

Hmm... well, those aren't gunblades of the same type the Empire uses. Those are emphasis on the gunblade; the Imperial version emphasizes the gunblade. Still, there are probably gunblade designs in the Codex.

While the Dotharl's massacre of the Hotgo is terrible, remember that they are Xaela; strength is the way of the Steppe. It's cultural thing.

Three years could be recent, but so could ten. It's unknown at the moment.

Mide and Dayan wanted to create a place that they could call home, and travel the world seeking knowledge - I recall this being mentioned in the Alexander quest chain - a home that could move with them, which makes sense considering the nomadic nature of the Xaela. They strove for the perfect world shared by the goblins, an ideal which was twisted by the Illuminati.

And there is a different from strength and wholesale slaughter. Other tribes have been attacked and defeated, but there are survivors - such as the Kahkol and the Qerel. The Dotharl do not appear to be a tribe that murders non-combatants, although that may be SE overemphasizing the tribe's positive aspects. It's just unknown at this point, although I'm hope that SE may mention it, considering the note of the massacre is just below the Dotharl's bit on the naming convention. It's the big elephant in the room when interacting with the Dotharl, especially in light of Magnai/Sadu's little ongoing comedy.

I'd like to point out that the Dotharl tribe is the -only- tribe mentioned in the lore as committing to the total massacre of another tribe. This is not common in the Steppes.

"Adarkim: The largest of the Xaela tribes. While not the most skilled at battle, they overwhelm with numbers, taking losses in stride, knowing that a future victory over a weaker tribe will replenish their ranks."

"Avagnar: Though defeated and absorbed by the Adarkim, several of the proud tribe's members still secretly use its ancestral name, knowing that it could mean death if they are discovered."

"Jhungid: The second largest Xaela tribe. Mortal enemies with the Kharlu, the Jungid will spend the greater part of the year subjugating smaller tribes to swell their own ranks in preparation for an annual battle with the Kharlu--the winner gaining control over a large part of the eastern coastlands."

"Kharlu: The third largest Xaela tribe. Mortal enemies with the Jungid, the Kharlu will spend the greater part of the year subjugating smaller tribes to swell their own ranks in preparation for an annual battle with the Jungid--the winner gaining control over a large part of the eastern coastlands."

"Dotharl: An extremely violent tribe with members who revel in massacre and are taught from a young age not to fear death. While they are quick to attack other tribes, mortality rates are high, ensuring that their numbers never grow too high."

"Hotgo: A tribe recently massacred by the Dotharl. The only members surviving are those who left the tribe to travel on their own and were not present during the killing. The Hotgo were known for their vibrant face paints which members would constantly change depending on their current mood."

"Kahkol: A tribe made up of orphans and refugees from tribes defeated or destroyed. Many choose to combine the name of their old tribe with Kahkol."

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3039574


If you click the link to the source I used, you will notice that there are plenty of tribes that are not even known for fighting. But more importantly, those that are, tend to do it for slaves, resources, territory and/or dominance. This can also be confirmed in-game via the quests and Fates of Azim Steppes.

Even in the Nadaam, a tribe could lose without having every warrior killed in battle, and they certainly do not send every man, woman and child into battle. The Hotgo were totally massacred. It is made clear that the Dotharl killed every man, woman and child who was there. Only Hotgo who were away form the tribe survived. If there were any Hotgo left from the massacre, they would have joined the Kahkol. The Dotharl spared no one.

Then you have tribes like the Mol. Everyone thinks they are weak; even some members of their own tribe. Yet, they are not massacred. They survive, and even have land and resources. They live on the Steppes unlike some tribes that survive by avoiding the Steppes to favor places other tribes don't want to go.

My point is, war is common for the Xaela, but total massacre is not. Massacre is a Dotharl thing. But you wouldn't know it by meeting them in-game. So, what's the deal?

The whole basis for my argument is that I see a lot of people hand-waving what the Dotharl did as "the way of the Steppes". However, if it were, why don't we see more of it? Why is it only noted to happen to the Hotgo? I think there is a bigger story there - one I hope will be revealed.

[alimdia]

why didn’t its owners use the Codex to uplift the Xaela?

If the Hotgo was founded by Mide and Dayan, and they were able to see everything Alexander could, every possible outcome of changing history, I would say it makes sense for them to lead history to the exact same path it is right now and don't prevent their tribe from being massacred, knowing it would lead to them eventually summoning and stopping alexander.

Not sure if this makes sense, it's hard to convey what I mean in a topic about time traveling.

The whole basis for my argument is that I see a lot of people hand-waving what the Dotharl did as "the way of the Steppes". However, if it were, why don't we see more of it? Why is it only noted to happen to the Hotgo? I think there is a bigger story there - one I hope will be revealed.

The answer to that is in your own post

"Kahkol: A tribe made up of orphans and refugees from tribes defeated or destroyed. Many choose to combine the name of their old tribe with Kahkol."

Tribes defeated and tribes destroyed, so this isn't the first time a tribe is destroyed, the Hotgo isn't a single occurrence nor it's an outlier if it has happened enough times that the survivors ended up uniting in a tribe.

Then going off this

"Many choose to combine the name of their old tribe with Kahkol."

We would have to wait until we meet more Kahkol to know the names of the other tribes that were destroyed or defeated.

[LystAP]

If the Hotgo was founded by Mide and Dayan, and they were able to see everything Alexander could, every possible outcome of changing history, I would say it makes sense for them to lead history to the exact same path it is right now and don't prevent their tribe from being massacred, knowing it would lead to them eventually summoning and stopping alexander.

Not sure if this makes sense, it's hard to convey what I mean in a topic about time traveling.





The answer to that is in your own post

"Kahkol: A tribe made up of orphans and refugees from tribes defeated or destroyed. Many choose to combine the name of their old tribe with Kahkol."

Tribes defeated and tribes destroyed, so this isn't the first time a tribe is destroyed, the Hotgo isn't a single occurrence nor it's an outlier if it has happened enough times that the survivors ended up uniting in a tribe.

Then going off this

"Many choose to combine the name of their old tribe with Kahkol."

We would have to wait until we meet more Kahkol to know the names of the other tribes that were destroyed or defeated.

Having a tribe destroyed is different from a whole-scale massacre. Technically, the Avagnar are destroyed, as their culture was wholly assimilated by the Adarkim. But there were survivors. The outlier is the implication in the Hotgo text that the Dotharl massacred every last member they could get their hands on.

The question being asked in Kiht's post isn't about how the tribe was destroyed, but how every man, woman and child was killed by a strangely honorable tribe in the MSQ. The Dotharl revel in the battle and seek to have their souls shine bright, I doubt slaughtering children would make their souls very bright.

[LystAP]

Having a tribe destroyed is different from a whole-scale massacre. Technically, the Avagnar are destroyed, as their culture was wholly assimilated by the Adarkim. But there were survivors. The outlier is the implication in the Hotgo text that the Dotharl massacred every last member they could get their hands on.

The question being asked in Kiht's post isn't about how the tribe was destroyed, but how every man, woman and child was killed by a strangely honorable tribe in the MSQ. The Dotharl revel in the battle and seek to have their souls shine bright, I doubt slaughtering children would make their souls very bright.

A issue is that the tribal descriptions are in the Lorebook, which means it is near Word of God for FFXIV. The Lorebook itself has several instances that references things which would be improbable for a Eorzean scholar to know, or make comparisons with how Japanese is involved. Unless its mentioned explicitly in-game, sources external to the game have precedence, including the naming conventions, which came before SE identified Mide as a Hotgo.

Which raises a interesting question, SE could have just given Mide a random tribe name, such as they did for Sidurgu. Why did they pick the Hotgo, a PC name option, and in SB, why did they pick the Dotharl - whom are connected to the Hotgo by being the instruments of the former's destruction.

Anyway, it's just a theory, and one I came up with myself. There's no support for it in-game, aside from the overall oddity that the Dotharl don't seem to be as vicious as they're supposed to be - EXCEPT when it came to the Hotgo.

This is the point of interest, the Hotgo seemed an exception, while the Dotharl supposed revelry of massacre is rather tamed in application.

That said, the naming conventions themselves are actually quite accurate, although broad. The Goro view of marriage is very similar to how dragons view their mates, so it could be said to be married. The Dataqi chief himself admits that they often do sleep on their saddles and those who infer as such wouldn't be incorrect. The low numbers from combat attrition part of the Dotharl description was acknowledged by Sadu herself, when Gosetu inquired about it to her. And we know the Oronir description is very accurate.

The only exception that hasn't yet to be explained or noted seems to be the Hotgo and their face paint.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Snip

I feel it is important to point out that the info in that tribe list is actually flawed being Eorzean scholar understanding and in universe is based heavily on 2nd and 3rd hand accounts.

The differences between the text on the Goro (horse marriage) and Dataqi (living in the saddle, rarely camping) and the truth (Goro swear life friendships with their horses and the Dataqi just migrate very often) shows how flawed that info is.