Tank Balance Achieved?

[Tufelhunden]

Don't nerf pld!

It shouldn't be all that tough to add it at all. There's lots of ways they can.

I don't think most are asking for pld nerds, at least from what I read. They instead are asking for something to set the other tanks as not the automatic ot. I could be wrong though. I posted in the nerf pld thread, but mine was mainly tounge in cheek because so many pld say utility doesn't matter.

[ovIm]

Second, as a tank, you can't afford to fall too far behind in any one area. It's possible to be overpowered in one domain and underpowered in another. They tried this with the "physical tank" and "magical tank" in HW, but it just encouraged players to swap jobs on a fight-by-fight basis.

There are a few different domains in which need to be balanced independently: raid dps, personal mitigation, raid mitigation, and self-sustain.

Hm, honestly, after reading this, I am sure I could have worded a lot of what I wrote differently. Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated!
I think when I spoke about Utility, I mainly meant raid wide mitigation. Seeing as the tanks seem to be rather balanced in raid dps and personal mitigation, raid mitigation is something where PLD currently has a huge advantage over the other 2 tanks. This is the cause for my current opinion.

What probably happened was this. The devs created an ability which blocks an attack for either yourself or a friend. And when the shield shatters, you launch into a counterattack! That feels pretty fun! And they probably didn't think about it a whole lot further.
The problem is that most of DRK's new actions are interrelated, so flat potency gains just shift around your priorities, rather than giving you the needed dps boost. DRK's issues at the moment are resource related, rather than potency related. That's why the Quietus change made such a fantastic difference to DRK's AoE gameplay. MP is potency. Blood is potency.

Good writeup, I couldnt agree more. One thing I might want to add, something that sometimes seems to be overlooked is that TBN ensures that a healer has to heal 10k HP less than what he usually heals, meaning he could technically throw in at least one more damage spell. This easily makes TBN a group DPS gain in my opinion, however, I can see that this is kinda situational.

I still think the biggest issue regarding tank balance (for progression) atm is PLD's utility. DRK's TBN isn't really utility either. it's comparable to Intervention.
Since it's probably tough to give DRK and WAR as much utility, easiest would be to either lower damage or survivabilty of PLD or take away most of it's utility.

Im sure that no one honestly wants to have PLD stripped of its identity. The class is currently well designed and their kit is good the way it is. What DRK and WAR should receive are some raid mitigation tools of their own, to level the field.

[Renkei]

i think wars utility should be damage while dark needs passanger removed replaced with scourge and shadow wall should be increased to 40%. both war and dark need a dot returned, war should have a dot added into an already existing ability i dont wannna be clunked down even more unless they are willing to make shake it off provide a bonus to warriot other then a removal of a debuff.

[aleph_null]

I don't think most are asking for pld nerds, at least from what I read. They instead are asking for something to set the other tanks as not the automatic ot. I could be wrong though. I posted in the nerf pld thread, but mine was mainly tounge in cheek because so many pld say utility doesn't matter.

Pld should be the default OT, not the other tanks lol. Cover is free 20% mitigation and makes tank swap unnecessary, intervention is up every 20-30s, so you can use it on the other tank pretty often. Combining sentinel or rampart and intervention is also good for things that hit both tanks like terminal antilight.

[Starkbeaumont]

Pld should be the default OT, not the other tanks lol. Cover is free 20% mitigation and makes tank swap unnecessary, intervention is up every 20-30s, so you can use it on the other tank pretty often. Combining sentinel or rampart and intervention is also good for things that hit both tanks like terminal antilight.

And it's annoying that so many ppl don't get this.

[Paiyne]

Pld should be the default OT, not the other tanks lol.

MT priority DRK, PLD, WAR

DRK is happy being hit to deal dmg back. Warrior has harder dps rotation to PLD, abilities gated behind dps stance. Tank stance is naturally worse when swapped into meaning you need to tank stance earlier (get healed/hit IB). Also its more sensitive to mechanics lowering dps. Not all the above is always relevant but its reason behind WAR having a harder time as MT and performing to high level.

Paladin has insane tools while OTing for sure, however are still fantastic MT(and easy as pie to rock damage while staying safe).

Tldr: WAR is still best placed as OT before PLD because of current state of tanks. Its making the most of the raid not just the one person.

This is all just my opinion and experience mostly pugging savage 1-3 farm groups. So happy for anyone to disagree! I don\\'t really play DRK so people can educate me on that.

[Eliroth-Kaminari]

Drk taking happly hits sound wrong whit 4.0 kit. TBN can be used in ot position. And will more likely brake. Blood price don't have power in it anymore to make drk forced MT. We changed positions in v3s whit war because you can rotate hg awareness hg awareness on busters where drk need swap after 3rd buster

[aleph_null]

MT priority DRK, PLD, WAR

Even if you want the pld to MT they should be OT at pull, the dps tradeoff of a pld using halone in the opener instead of goring > req > 7x holy spirit is too big. Cover is essentially free rampart with 12s cd, in o1s you can cover the other tank, pop rampart/bulwark for the double wyrm tails, and let the other tank pop multiple cds for the next double wyrm tails. I don't remember much about o2s but in o3s you can cover the other tank at pull and pop awareness, rampart, bulwark for the first critical hit. Intervention is really good for things that hit both tanks, like terminal antilight and twin bolt, since you can pair it with sentinel and mitigate the damage for both yourself and the other tank. In neo exdeath this allows the other tank to stack multiple cds for aero 3 and other tank busters, without relying on tank stance.

Ideally there's no such thing as MT and OT since doing multiple tank swaps would allow both tanks to use their cds efficiently, but if you have to choose one tank for a permanent MT throughout the fight, pld is the worst choice. War is a lot better than pld to MT in o3s due to holmgang being available every two critical hits. Whenever a pld can use sentinel, a war can use holmgang. For the other critical hits war can pop vengeance, raw intuition, and awareness, allowing them to take little damage even in dps stance 99% of the time. I mean, even if we're talking about turtle tank MT, warrior absolutely destroys pld once you take into account inner beast. During progression it's also a lot easier for war to switch from/to defiance since it doesn't cost gcd. I've swapped to defiance for tank busters only to go back to deliverance 10s later, that's not as bad as a pld having to lose 2 gcds to pop shield oath and then sword oath.

[finders]

a lot of bad information is being spread.

[Umbeliel]

a lot of bad information is being spread.

Elaborate?